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Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

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Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#491

Interesting venue to post this on. But as it's the afternoon in the US workday, it's a fair chance that many responses will come from US tech workers who are slacking off or taking a break from their job and were enticed in by the headline. Given the culture of HN comments I reckon you'll get grooming tips and pointless anecdotes, condescending advice, or unhelpful peptalks. What I'll say is that you probably are dis…

> The best stuff is always produced by very small, tightly-knit teams...

This line hints at both the key problem and the path forward for the disillusioned engineer. Things go sideways when we realize that we are not building “the best stuff”. When we are working on the best stuff we realize that the sustainable joy comes from the team dynamics rather than the output of our work.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#492
Because pop-technology is void of any sort of spirit, culture or enthusiasm. It's all buzzwords, sale pitches and wheel reinventing put in a new wrapper and walled gardens.

What restored faith in technology for me personally is libre software hacker movement. It's just so fun to enjoy technology without all of that fake sillicon valley culture.

It's fun to _own_ technology and understand it and be able to hack it and experience it with like minded individuals.

If you're burned out try to find job in libre software, it won't pay as much but as far as spiritual rewards - it's the most you can get from this medium.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#493

I've been working as an engineer in high paced roles at one of the FANGs for about 15 years now. I've gone through ups-and-downs in terms of what I call "creative energy", which I will refer to as coding "mojo". 1. You have a limited amount of mojo that you can throw at a problem. When you're young, this focus and energy is easy. You can throw it at problems that you may not be that vested in for a reward like money.…

There is an obscure Russian book on creativity and talent, “On the nature of Talent / The boy who could fly” by Igor Akimov and Victor Klimenko (1988), that explores the concept of “energy potential”-- the thing that you call “mojo”. It resonated with me 20 years ago, and it resonates now, after a re-reading.

Here are some quotes from that book. Please excuse my rough translation:

When the creator is larger than the task, he is OK -- he has no need to exercise his willpower or to spur himself.

When the creator is equal to the task (e.g. the shape of the chair he is designing causes him discomfort but he cannot figure out why exactly), the willpower wakes up and stands behind his back, expecting an assignment. If the creator has enough energy, the willpower just states, “here’s the task, no need to rush -- we’ll solve it, no need to worry”. But if the creator has low energy, the willpower rolls up the sleeves in order to gather up missing energy.

When the creator is smaller than the task, he’d better step aside, or the task will crush him.

If the creator’s energy is depleted, peace of mind is a godsend to him.

The ability to solve problems (the structure of the creator's soul) is not affected by any external conditions, nor by time. That’s why no matter how hard life tries to crush the creator, he cannot be crushed. To uplift him, there’s no need to pump him up with energy externally. All he needs to do is to muster up just a bit of strength to lift his eyelids -- and notice the task. Seeing the task is his salvation. Squash the smallest task -- swat! and it’s gone. No problem that the task was small: a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. The subsequent task will be easier for him -- because he’s already moving, he has some momentum. And so his energy level begins to rise.

But if he wastes his energy potential, he loses himself. No protection: he is vulnerable all around, and even if nobody is intending to hurt him, he sees malicious intentions in every word, gesture or action, however well-intentioned.

Our energy capacity increases in only two cases: 1. When our energy is expended during creative labor. 2. When our energy is expended during physical exercise, resulting in pleasant tiredness.

Means of increasing our energy potential: 1. Positive emotions. 2. Motion / movement. 3. Solving problems.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#494

I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…

> Have you ever thought about them and gave them time/money for their suffering? No, you only cared them inso far as they can cook for you. This is how others saw you.

Well, actually (and I'm deliberately using my sock puppet account to say this as this is one of the things one should just do and not brag about):

For some of us, many of us, but not most of us I'm afraid, we buy stuff not necessarily because we need it or even want it but partially because of who is selling it.

Every time the kids come to sell the newspaper on the weekend I buy it, read two pages that I coild have read online and leave it on the table in case my wife wants to read it. She doesn't so it ends in trash.

Meanwhile I've been part of teaching one kid the value of honest work. My brother-in-law paid for his first Mac using money he earned from selling newspapers in the weekends. He is an amazing producer now and has been working both as a singke man production team with a local TV station where he lives, at international conferences and sometimes with at least one if not two national TV stations.

Maybe I'm giving another brilliant kid a chance now? Based on the fact that they show up every weekend there might be some potential :-)

This could have been a Scandinavian thing, but I know kt exists in the US too. I think I heard about it in an audio book named something along the lines of "400 things cops know" or something:

> As a police officer if you walk by a lemonade stand or (something else I can't remember) you should buy! Even if you aren't thirsty!

Personally, even as a grown up I've had customers telling me in no uncertain terms to raise my prices, and I've heard my boss (or technically, the operations manager, two steps above my boss) telling me again to tell a vendor from a less fortunate country that the contract was fine but the operations manager refused to pay the ridiculously low price they quoted.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#495

I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…

This sounds so American to me. I grew up in Eastern Europe and general attitude towards work, life, and friendship is so much different. Some of the best friendships I've made were at the companies I worked for. I've seen cases where people make so good friendships at work that it even makes them postpone switching jobs to move up the career ladder. Work is not everything in your life. Work is important for sure, but…

It’s probably just the general HN crowd I think.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#496

People in this thread are complaining about how bad work is, but I believe school is even worse. With work, you're at least not a "slave". You're (mostly) allowed to quit if it gets really bad, and you're ultimately responsible for where you work, what industry etc. With school (I'm thinking from primary to high-school here), you have no right to decide on anything. If you're learning things that don't interest you i…

School is for kids, it's not the same thing at all. Kids need development guidance even if it's relatively forceful.

Also most modern schools offer a lot of options.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I was surprised by that line. I tried to do that. 10 years ago I was a newly minted Ph.D. and my wife and I had to solve the 2 body problem and we compromised with our jobs so we could both be employed together in a nice town with a relatively low cost of living and a great place to raise a family. Our lives outside of work were fantastic! Great friends, nice house, lots of weekend activities, got my first pup (…

I appreciate reading your story. I'm ~6 years out of school having been in large companies and am wondering if it's normal to have the joy sucked out like I'm experiencing. If you don't mind me asking, how did you end up finding the small startup job? When I look at the job boards they're often dominated by the big guns or it's hard to sort through lots of small (oftentimes shady) postings - I don't know where to go…

Try AngelList, lots of small companies and startups.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#498

I have also experience close to burnout and recovered multiple times, in the process I have lost very precious relationships, and entire years were spent in darkness. I also have friends who have been in tech for close to ten years, and are close to burning out though they would never admit to such. This is the nature of the beast, all things that appear glamorous on the outside ( Hollywood, Finance, Tech, many nonpr…

Thanks for the advice. It's really good. > Think about all the food stands that you have walked past in your life, within each stand is an immigrant family who slave away for decades hoping for a better life. Have you ever thought about them and gave them time/money for their suffering? I know what you mean and know what you're getting at. But I feel compelled to point out this particular example isn't quite the same…

I have no love for VCs. But let's be real honest. Doesn't the vast majority of startup wealth come from lying? I'm not talking about VCs lying to founders, but founders lying to their customers (selling ads, giving them "free" services while pick-pocketing their data) or exploiting people on the bottom of the food chain (the "gig" economy)?

In other words, everyone should be looking in the mirror.

> You blame everyone but yourself for becoming "soulless". Your very use of this word reveals a great lack of soul. You misuse it to describe working like a machine, an automaton. The nurse who is working like a machine to save lives at great risk to her own has the most wonderful, beautiful soul. What makes you soulless is that you're only thinking about yourself and "new products" (ways to make money) without any hint of a conscience troubled by the decisions made and actions taken in pursuit of those profits, and what that says about who you are. Or maybe the depression was a conscience trying hard to speak out, but it got snuffed by drugs rather than getting heard.

From https://gist.github.com/mGBUfLn9/7cadffcf7c3c23b7376350165a6...

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#499
That's just how life is, how business is. people are driven by motivation (a lot of times by money) you didn't lose any friends, if they are with you when you have something and now they're gone, they never were your friends.

I like to code, I do this since I have 13 (I have 30 now), I didn't start this to make money, I do this because I like it and I would do this even if I were not paid for

I worked with a lot of good people, but they are just coworkers, not my friends. you must figure out the difference and find your purpose. Maybe tech is not for you and that's ok if you are happy doing non-tech stuff you should focus on that.

Re: Extremely disillusioned with technology. Please help

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, what the hell is that about? is it a form of abuse like trying to keep everyone under control? is it a form of psychological conditioning to remind you that you just a resource whose top priority is to be interrupted at any time so knowing that you don't really have any personal space sovereignty or privacy to your own thoughts or creativity but that you must answer and create only for the collective? I don'…

I can't say for certain, but I would guess it has something to do with the idea that all people must be available to each other at all times for the sake of raw productivity. So if there is a problem there is no time to wait. You just walk right up to the person you need to speak with and get it resolved then and there. Open offices facilitate that feeling of persistent accessibility and production. No closed doors t…

I have read somewhere that there is often _less_ face-to-face communication in an open landscape than with single offices. Possible reasons include an unwillingness to disturb everyone else, and that people in such situations tend to turn inward in order to isolate themselves from everything and everyone around them.

Also (and somewhat contradictory to the above), I expect that, if your colleagues are _too_ easily available, you'll be running to them with a half baked question in your head, only to blurt it out before realising you didn't think it through, and wasting both their time and your own. But before you go knocking on someone's office door to ask a question, you really want to be sure that you know what you want to ask, and that you understand the problem well enough for the answer to make sense to you. Which leads to a better conversation, less time wasted, and better learning.

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