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New 13-inch MacBook Pro

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Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#951

Post by pfranz »

dewey wrote: post #424
saddlerustle wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price $2999 in the US. There's no markup here, Apple's EU pricing just includes 20% VAT ($600) and implicit AppleCare (~$300) as required by EU consumer law.

> implicit AppleCare (~$300) as required by EU consumer law I wouldn't say AppleCare is the same as having the extended warrenty to obey the EU consumer law. AppleCare includes a bunch of things that are outside of normal "warrenty" coverage.

I'd love for someone to chime in with specific details. I looked quickly at the French and US sites to compare. France does offer AppleCare+ for 299,00 € on a random MacBook I chose.

The US page is pretty clear that it extends a 1-year hardware warranty to 3-years and extends 90 days of technical support. In recent years they seem to focus more on accidental damage (with an additional per-incident fee).

The French website is more hand-wavy around improved hardware warranty. It also mentions the tech support, but the value seems to be the accidental damage.

The accidental damage math in the US is a tough one for me. $300 for AppleCare+ and $50 per incident goes a long way towards paying outright for a repair or buying a new laptop. The hardware warranties seem to be significantly better in Europe and historically the biggest value-add in the US. AppleCare+ just seems a lot less useful in Europe.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#952

Post by pfranz »

diffeomorphism wrote: post #454
alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

Dell: * Much higher resolution screen (3840x2400 vs 2560x1600) * Smaller and lighter (not by much though) and thinner bezels * Better hardware support (apple hardware has bad support under anything but macOS and I can't think of any hardware which is supported under mac but not on windows).

> apple hardware has bad support under anything but macOS and I can't think of any hardware which is supported under mac but not on windows

I had to read this a few times. You mean third-party hardware and peripherals, right? I first read it as running Windows on Mac hardware, which Bootcamp supports. Linux usually lags a few years and often isn't solid. Battery life usually isn't as good.

Paradoxical to your peripheral experience, I often much prefer macOS' experience to Windows with things like mice and printers since they often use standard, builtin tools instead of requiring third-party drivers with terrible UIs. For most things in the past 10-15+ years they support both Mac/Windows.

One pro Windows laptops usually have over Mac is the Mac webcams have the same quality from their laptops over a decade ago. Cameras are something Apple used to brag about (both including them standard and the quality of them).

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#953

Post by pfranz »

abtinf wrote: post #166
alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

The Apple list is shorter because you ignored nearly all of the differentiating features enabled by the Apple ecosystem. You also ignored many of the non-obvious details of the Mac hardware.

I did a similar comparison a few years ago and had a very similar list and came to the same conclusion (about $500 more for the Apple, but it was probably worth it in known reliability and resale). The only thing I would have added was that Apple's camera quality hasn't improved in 10+ years, which sucks if you're working remote (hopefully now everyone notices this).

A lot of the hardware things I liked about Mac laptops got stripped off (MagSafe, charging indicator, SD card slot).

I imagine everything else is up to personal workflow. My wife was looking at another Mac laptop because she wanted to transition GarageBand projects from her iPad. Since, in practice, the files often crash when doing this and she has to export/import that workflow is useless and she's looking at a Windows laptop.

I'd be curious what kind of things you would put on your list.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#954

Post by geerlingguy »

vel0city wrote: post #288
geerlingguy wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to use an optical drive in the past 5 years. I'm guessing most of us are in a similar situation. For those instances, I pull out an old external USB blu-ray player.

The top level commenter was not talking about an optical drive like CDs or DVDs, they were talking about having optical audio connectivity through a TOSLINK mini plug.

Ah. I used to plug my old original Core 2 Duo MBP into a 5.1 system using a mini TOSlink cable, but since HDMI started doing surround audio I haven't had a need for optical audio connections. It was cool seeing a LED inside the audio jack, however.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#955

Post by dkdbejwi383 »

hilti wrote: post #584
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve found that the Touch Bar’s fundamental flaw is that it doesn’t handle unintended touches well (which sadly affects multiple Apple technologies, including my Watch and even the trackpad occasionally), and that is directly related to the fact that it has no raised elements. It's the worst. I constantly hit mute instesd of backspace. Changing the volume or brightness is a complete pain now. It used to be just tap…

It's easy to change this behaviour Open the System Preferences app. Select the Keyboard option (third row, sixth item) On the first tab (also called Keyboard), locate the dropdown for "Touch Bar shows" and choose "Expanded Control Strip".

This doesn't change that I have to look for the on screen buttons and can't just reflexively change the volume while doing something else. Changing the volume or brightness or whatever now becomes a discete task that stops me doing what I was doing before. This * 10 over the course of a day adds up to lots of distractions ovet time.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#956

Post by dividedbyzero »

ajmurmann wrote: post #874
dividedbyzero wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the actual, underlying problem is, the Touchbar is bad UX for a bunch of software engineers, but pretty great for most everyone else. Think about it – you lose some keys you never really had a use for anyway except as media keys, and you get almost analogue-ish volume and brightness controls, apps can give you context-dependent options that are really discoverable (which F-keys totally aren't) and can adapt t…

How does it help with emoji? I've found CMD+Ctrl+space to already work really well.

I tried to find something like that at least half a dozen times over the years and I didn't know this was possible, this is immensely helpful! Thank you!

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#958

Post by vkoskiv »

makecheck wrote: post #859
mirkules wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mentioned the volume/brightness sliders as being imprecise. I don’t have a MBP, but I noticed that touchscreen sliders are really difficult to use accurately. Whenever I slide to a value I wanted, lifting my finger inevitably moves the slider over just a little bit selecting an adjacent value (just by virtue of my finger not being lifted straight up). Is this the issue?

I’m sure I have had sliders mishave like that, too. Mostly I just don’t want a slider in the first place; I prefer feeling for the volume up/down keys and tweaking the volume bit by bit, sometimes using modifier keys for extra precision. It is incredibly easy to input “slightly louder” in the old way. It is unnecessarily hard to input “slightly louder” with a wonky touch slider. And, at times I have blown up the spea…

You can just flick left/right on the volume/brightness icons to adjust a single increment, without having to bring out the slider. This isn't documented anywhere, it's another one of those hidden features you just have to learn.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#959

Post by morsch »

NathanWilliams wrote: post #926
morsch wrote: post #760

Honestly, the take away from these discussions is to get a desktop PC.

I hope one day you grow as a person, and realise different people have different requirements, preferences and trade-offs. I value macOS, I work away from a desk more often than on one, and my past Mac computers have lasted for longer than any other commodity desktop or laptop. I'm currently replacing a perfectly functional 2011 MBP, and only because I have some bonus money, otherwise it would have gone another coupl…

I realize that, of course. No need to insult me.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#960

Post by harunurhan »

unethical_ban wrote: post #941
dreamcompiler wrote: post #733

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "real" Escape key is essential. I'm using a new 16" MBP at work and it's quite nice, but without the real Escape key I'd probably be cursing the computer every day. I thought I'd hate the touchbar, but I actually thought it was cute -- for about an hour. Then I realized it was just a useless gimmick and reset it to "Expanded Control Strip" which is Apple's euphemism for "Make the touchbar look and act just like t…

The touchbar is not useless - that is an opinion I do not share. I do not use the Fn keys in MacOS - and having media controls, screen lock, and other data in the touchbar makes more sense for me. It was and is an experiment in user behavior and UI. Some like it, some don't. I'm not committed to it, but I don't want the HN bubble to think their "bad touchbar" is the only opinion.

I can see it can be, and it actually is useful for many users, but it's not for me, and many others share the same opinion. So having an option not to get the touch bar is important for us.
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