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Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#161

Post by ghaff »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #99
chimprich wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is of little interest to 5-eyes. For a start, installation of the app is voluntary so if you're planning something you really don't want the government to discover, you wouldn't install it. Also, intelligence services already get call metadata so they know which mobile towers you are using and probably lots else. As for effectiveness, I think it will be useful. There have been several papers crunching the number…

They mentioned a few weeks back that the end goal would be if you had the app it could act as a virtual health passport and you’d be allowed to go out shopping, go to work and the pub, etc. And without it? Stay at home. So yeah, technically voluntary, but, y‘know...

Install it on a secondary phone? Of course it all depends on how serious the government is and how hard you are willing to work to circumvent controls.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#162

Post by jtolmar »

dan-robertson wrote: post #126
lazyeye wrote: post #12

Does anyone else find this a little ironic given Google is a company that has been logging peoples location to a very fine detail for years

I have four arguments as to why google are behaving this way with regards to this data. I’ve no idea which, if any, they operate by: 1. It’s actually crap and they don’t want their advertisers to know that their ads are sold based on crap quality data/don’t want the backlash of doing a poor job helping 2. Most people at google care a lot about privacy (either in the secret kept between you and google sense or the mor…

> 2. Most people at google care a lot about privacy (either in the secret kept between you and google sense or the more common sense definition people seem to use on hn)

When I worked at Google, I saw a lot of earnest efforts to keep data private, in a way that really was sufficient (k-anonymized with large k, for example), but in ways that have no outward proof that it was happening. Send all possible data to the server, then make sure it's properly clustered and scrubbed before it gets stored or analyzed. And it's not easy to explain to someone who can see the whole system that from an end-user's view this is identical to just scooping up everything.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#163

Post by mrfusion »

djrogers wrote: post #112
mrfusion wrote: post #90

I’m so confused. Can you opt out of this?

Can you opt out of installing an app? Is that actually what you're asking here? If so, yes..

If Apple wanted to they could force your phone to install an Unremovable app or just add in the software in an update.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#165

Post by Jach »

bduerst wrote: post #93
SSLy wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll use an analogy: they might not be the warlords, but they are the weapon traffickers.

I interned in St. Louis one summer and my neighbor worked at Boeing. The only reason I remember him to this day is because he introduced himself as a programmer working on smart bombs. He immediately said it was okay because he didn't fire the bombs, he just made them smarter so they didn't kill innocent people.

Reminds me of a song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajVIiS65TFY) "Don't ya know that the smart bombs are so clever? They only kill bad people now."

It's rather amazing the mental gymnastics people perform to get out of cognitive dissonance. I'm much more sympathetic with people who know exactly what they're working on and the full effects of that work, why some will find it distasteful, but nonetheless can at least make a case for why those people are wrong and the work important, rather than agreeing with them but hastily adding some transparent excuse to avoid being lumped in the distasteful category.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#167

Post by taywrobel »

alex_young wrote: post #157
taywrobel wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a realistic expectation that we have no one working on smart bombs/weapons technology in general? I’d love to be in the utopia world where there is no war and the entire planet gets along. But even the US has political bipolar disorder, so we’re a looooong way from global peace. I do think we spend an absurd and inappropriate amount on defense, but as long as we are forced to develop weapons due to the global g…

Maybe you can’t convince everyone else to behave ethically, but you can hold yourself to that standard. Working on bomb tech is over a line for me personally.

Sure, I get that. And I think it’s a position shared by a lot of people. Probably the majority of people. But it’s an ugly necessity of modern politics.

We could absolutely stop all weapons production in the US, I’d just ask for some time to learn Mandarin first.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#168

Post by jaimex2 »

Here in Australia our Covid tracing app is already out.

It uses Bluetooth proximity logs and local storage unless you test positive and are asked to upload.

I had a look at whats in the apps DB and it seems it just keeps a log of unique ids it bumps into. When you test positive and upload I'm guessing it publishes those unique ids if the logs show over 15 minutes of contact.

The government already have our locations via cell towers so they just have to match the data if they really wanted to.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#169

Post by jon889 »

AJRF wrote: post #3

I've been wondering about the UK contact tracing app because they seem to be deliberately misleading saying that data is secure on the phone, yet it's a centralised model, and they are using bullshit terms like "clinically secure algorithm" to describe the one-time codes; Is the source code of these apps something that could be FOI requested from NHSx seeing as it is publicly funded by the tax payer? Also they've alr…

Btw the petition needs to on the parliament petitions site for a chance to have it debated

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#170

Post by sjwright »

alkibiades wrote: post #117

even without location tracking it’s creepy. what happens when the govt contact traces a man with his mistress and then blackmails him?

I laugh at conspiracy theories which revolve around the Government paying special attention to normal individuals.

Dude, Governments have the power to tax millions of people. They don’t need your piddling bribery money. It’s too much work for too little reward.

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