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Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

reuters.com

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Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#101

Post by notyourday »

flipgimble wrote: post #45

Its interesting that they call this a "Contact Tracing app" even after changing the naming to ExposureNotification.framework I think these restrictions are meant to win confidence with a somewhat skeptical public. This will also confine the apps to be single purpose for contact tracing only.

"We have established the person over there has been exposed to Bad Ideas on May 22 2020. Let us find all those people that were exposed to him. We trigger the exposure event via ExposureNotification.framework"

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#102

Post by taywrobel »

dave5104 wrote: post #78
taywrobel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with that analogy. Palantir isn’t getting them more data. It’s helping them use it more effectively. The organizations already have all the data recorded. If you don’t like the data that organizations record, I’m right there with you, but demonizing the tools that allow them to access data more effectively is an absurd stance to take. Their system also does things like add an immutable audit log, or enforc…

I'm curious if "accountability" actually means anything in practice, or if it's just some of the Palantir corporate kool-aid. I don't think everyone associates government agencies with pristine records of holding themselves accountable.

I’ve only worked with a handful of LEOs in my time there, but the ones I did work with were genuinely concerned about it.

If you’ve never worked with a government agency before, let me tell you, Hanlon’s Razor is in full effect. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

The higher ups know that free reign for their officers to look up anything is a recipe for legal nightmares. The individual officers are often just too dumb to realize that they shouldn’t search for something, and do so out of curiosity. Having blocks in the way like requiring a case number be entered to run a search, and knowing that that search and results are forever associated to that case, cut down a lot on abuse.

Are all forms of abuse the same, or so easily mitigated? No, but I’d like for some system to audit that and at least try to enforce it.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#104

Post by extra88 »

slg wrote: post #74
gruez wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple logs location history? Other than the wifi location log from ios4 and the significant locations feature (opt in, device only), I don't know how apple is logging locations.

On your iPhone you can go to Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services -> Significant Locations and you will see that Apple does keep track of at least some of your location history and tries to analyze it if you don't actively turn it off.

On my iPhone running iOS 13, I had to go a level deeper to find that: Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services -> Significant Locations.

To view Significant Locations, I have to provide my Touch ID again. Also, the fine print says "Significant Locations are end-to-end encrypted and cannot be read by Apple." Text repeated in "Location Services & Privacy"[0].

[0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#105

Post by PaulKeeble »

jedberg wrote: post #79
cwhiz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will ban and flag your account if your app just mentions the word Covid. It is absolutely absurd. Only Google is allowed to make a Covid app.

It may be a bit harsh, but it makes sense. Too many people are trying to take advantage of the situation to pull scams. It's a lot easier for Google to operate on a whitelist model than a blacklist model.

Then Google would be building a whitelist. They aren't doing that, they are using a position of power to isolate the market for themselves. That is a monopoly.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#106

Post by taywrobel »

pmiller2 wrote: post #88
taywrobel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with that analogy. Palantir isn’t getting them more data. It’s helping them use it more effectively. The organizations already have all the data recorded. If you don’t like the data that organizations record, I’m right there with you, but demonizing the tools that allow them to access data more effectively is an absurd stance to take. Their system also does things like add an immutable audit log, or enforc…

I'd rather we not help our own government "more effectively" spy on American citizens, thanks.

Oof, you’re going to have a hard time using pretty much any technology then. Especially if the EARN IT act passes.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#107

Post by djrogers »

slg wrote: post #74
gruez wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple logs location history? Other than the wifi location log from ios4 and the significant locations feature (opt in, device only), I don't know how apple is logging locations.

On your iPhone you can go to Settings -> Privacy -> Location Services -> System Services -> Significant Locations and you will see that Apple does keep track of at least some of your location history and tries to analyze it if you don't actively turn it off.

> you will see that Apple does keep track of at least some of your location history

That's not Apple keeping the data, that's your phone keeping the data. And that data isn't accessible to Apple - only you and your device.

From page 6 of https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Location_Services_White_P...

"This data is not shared with third parties, is fully encrypted, and can’t be read by Apple."

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#108

Post by taywrobel »

jvehent wrote: post #70
taywrobel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with that analogy. Palantir isn’t getting them more data. It’s helping them use it more effectively. The organizations already have all the data recorded. If you don’t like the data that organizations record, I’m right there with you, but demonizing the tools that allow them to access data more effectively is an absurd stance to take. Their system also does things like add an immutable audit log, or enforc…

So governments already have all the potassium nitrate, Palantir is just helping them make bullets?

Sure, if you think querying a database is the same as shooting someone.

If so, please don’t tell me you’re a DBA.

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#109

Post by nicwolff »

taywrobel wrote: post #64
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They create tools that enable the government to infringe on the privacy rights of their citizens

I could argue the exact same about literally any database used by the government. Their tools are just easier to use and more expressive. If you don’t like the bullshit the government does, that seems like an issue you should take up with the government, no? You’re using a tech company as a scapegoat.

> Their tools are just easier to use and more expressive.

And that's the problem – they're giving governments tools that let them more easily and effectively infringe on the privacy rights of their citizens. Privacy isn't invaded when the data is collected, although that's a necessary step; it's invaded when a cop or bureaucrat queries that data to see what a citizen has done. Giving them that tool is morally complicit.

~ "That's not my department," said Wernher von Braun. ~

Re: Apple, Google ban location tracking in apps using their contact-tracing system

#110

Post by MaxBarraclough »

buzzert wrote: post #96
cwhiz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will ban and flag your account if your app just mentions the word Covid. It is absolutely absurd. Only Google is allowed to make a Covid app.

With the sheer amount of scam, privacy invading apps that are preying on people’s fear, can you blame them?

A silver lining for the failure of PWAs: they can't really be used to get around the appstore requirements and defraud people.
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