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Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

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Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#201
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yev here -> unsure how those are related, but you certainly don't NEED to use Cloudflare if you're using B2 Cloud Storage as the data origination point, it's just an option that was brought up in the thread!

It sounded like the price would be different if you used a certain network provider, which is not-net-neutral.

I believe in this case Cloudflare and Backblaze would be considered service providers, not network providers (like Comcast or AT&T, etc...). And you'd still need to pay each service individually for the service they're providing. It's an alternative to say, Amazon S3 and their own CDN which also does not charge for egress in between the two services (since they own both). But in our case, you pay Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage of the storage, and you pay Cloudflare for their CDN capabilities, the partnership simply makes the transfer between our storage and their CDN free.

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#202
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yev here -> unsure how those are related, but you certainly don't NEED to use Cloudflare if you're using B2 Cloud Storage as the data origination point, it's just an option that was brought up in the thread!

It sounded like the price would be different if you used a certain network provider, which is not-net-neutral.

Transit does cost different amounts of money depending on who you negotiate transit with. That's not part of net neutrality.

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#203
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That requires the video to be encoded in a way where you can just start reading the stream from any random byte offset, and everything will still work. Video files are not usually encoded this way (any more.) Resume an MP4 or MKV video half-way through, without reading the TOC-ish stuff from the first chunk, and you'll get garbage that maybe resyncs after 20 seconds. It's totally possible to "encode for streaming", b…

That's odd. I can't recall ever having a problem with browsers playing mp4s in a vanilla tag, as long as I encode them in the main h264 profile, AAC audio, and MOOV atom at the front (see [0] for ffmpeg command). Obviously the server has to support Range: byte requests. My impression is DASH/HLS are mostly useful for adjusting bitrate on the fly. [0]: https://superuser.com/a/438471/402047

When the parent talks about jumping to random byte offsets, they mean you don't have the first part of the file at all. You just have an arbitrary 512-MB chunk out of the middle.

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#204
post #59
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? Can I just dumb two terabytes of video into Backblaze B2, setup a Cloudflare account and have people watch those videos with it costing me only $10 a month? Because that doesn't sound right.

The Cloudflare ToS explicitly exclude that use-case. 2.8 Limitation on Serving Non-HTML Content The Service is offered primarily as a platform to cache and serve web pages and websites. Unless explicitly included as a part of a Paid Service purchased by you, you agree to use the Service solely for the purpose of serving web pages as viewed through a web browser or other functionally equivalent applications and render…

To clarify, the key line is "a disproportionate amount of non-HTML content". Serving videos isn't prohibited but CF still has to prevent free plan websites from becoming huge loss-leaders.

Another big asterisk is that this applies to all proxied (DDOS-protected) content, not just the ones that use the CF cache. CF pays for all of their uplink bandwidth out-of-pocket regardless of if it's cached. You can see what happens when you proxy multiple terabytes of content on the free plan in this thread[0] (again all proxied bandwidth costs CF, which is why this user had their zone unproxied).

0: https://community.cloudflare.com/t/the-way-you-handle-bandwi...

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#205
post #61

Now that we're talking about B2, has or is anyone using them for latency-sensitive small-file object storage? I'm about to take the plunge and set up benchmarks, my use-case is that I want to store and serve ~ 500k small files (30b-1MB) per day to website visitors. So far B2 support has told me that it shouldn't be a problem, and early benchmarking indicates the same, just curious if anyone had stories from the trenc…

We use B2 to store images on Vintage Aerial ( https://vintageaerial.com ), both high res scans and all kinds of thumbnail sizes. It is... a little slower than I'd like but with Cloudfront in front it has been manageable. I love tips from Backblaze on how to increase performance there beyond caching to CF.

CloudFront or Cloudflare?

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this has nothing to do with net neutrality. Your ISP isn't discriminating what data you consume, whether it's from cloudflare or another CDN. This is about the fact that bandwidth is usually bought by capacity between networks rather than usage and they're passing those savings on to you instead of charging expensive per-GB costs like the major clouds.

I'm referring to Cloudflare as the network provider. It seems not-net-neutral to be charged different amounts depending on the relationship between the storage provider and the network provider. If the argument is a semantic one, that net neutrality is so narrowly defined that it doesn't apply to them as a CDN rather than a conventional ISP, it still stands that the situation is not-net-neutral if we generalize that…

Cloudflare doesn't charge for bandwidth, it's as neutral as it gets.

The charges are from the cloud (storage) providers. And most of them charge for bandwidth usage, but they don't discriminate based on what data you send. It doesn't matter if it's source code, photos, or linux binaries so there's no net-neutrality issue here.

You can potentially argue that Backblaze is discounting traffic based on the upstream network but that's not active discrimination. There are hard costs to internet transit and some companies can offer better pricing depending on where the traffic goes. For example, downloading from Australia is more expensive than downloading in America because of the infrastructure costs, and this isn't considered a net-neutrality violation.

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#208
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I work at Backblaze. > I really want to see lightning fast response times and TTFB (Time To First Byte Served) If a file is "cold" (nobody has requested it in the last 24 hours) then it needs to be reconstructed from the Backblaze Vaults and there is a little delay. After that, it should serve pretty fast for the following requests (off of a caching layer with SSDs). In the end, Backblaze B2 is a good sol…

I understand you're probably not in a position to say anything about it, but I'd love to see the "little delay" when reconstructing a file qualified somewhat. Are we talking < 5s or < 10s? What do the percentiles for restore latency look like? How does file size play into it? This, for me, is one of the biggest unknowns right now since it's not easy to create a test benchmark for this case (i.e. upload a bunch of stu…

> I'd love to see the "little delay" when reconstructing a file qualified somewhat. Are we talking I asked the engineers that work on that code, and they pulled a random sample from the logs (we time all of this) and said for files less than 1 MByte, it averaged around 250 milliseconds to reconstruct the file from the Backblaze Vault and get it onto the cache servers where it is then served up. In 95% of requests completed within 900 milliseconds, but there were a few up over 1 second (1.2 seconds was the highest they found). Those are live production numbers so it includes all the load on those Vaults.

A couple other notes just to add color. Any one Backblaze account is bound for life to what we call a "cluster", for example there is one cluster in Europe so all files are stored in Europe for any account in Europe. There is a load balanced array of "cache servers" in front of all the vaults specific to that cluster (the caching servers are physically located close to the vaults for latency reasons), and our biggest cluster has something like 20 of these SSD based caching servers. Ok, so the cache layer is not "shared", meaning each cache server only pulls directly from the Backblaze Vault. So if you were serving a file, and 20 separate customers got amazingly unlucky, the file would get the 250 millisecond lag every time for those first 20 fetches. The cool parts of this architecture is that then you have 20 populated caches that are completely unrelated to each other so you have 20x the bandwidth available to serve it up (and a rack of really fast 20 servers to serve it). Plus they are all totally independent so they can crash or be brought offline to upgrade the software without any downtime.

We can add these cache machines as we need them, they are these 1U units and we have "warm spares" for a variety of things. When we have had spikes in load in the past we toss some hardware at it pretty fast.

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#209
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the note of unit cost I doubt it will be much lower in the near future. Cost / GB isn't falling much if at all, and their Load balancer are already eating into their margin which means any further reduction in unit cost are only gaining back what they took in with the S3 API. Hopefully the new S3 compatible API means they could make all that back with volume. But this is also a sad realisation that storage tech ar…

Wasn't there a startup on hn some weeks ago that used a crypto mining approach to server management that was much cheaper?

Yes and it had little redundancy with limited up time and speed guarantee, with no S3 API compatibility. And if I remember correctly even that was $0.003 per GB, with lots of unit cost that a lot of people including me thought to be miscalculated, where it should be closer to $0.4 for it to be somewhat break even.

So may be it is cheaper, but not really comparable.

Re: Backblaze B2 Cloud Storage Now Has S3 Compatible APIs

#210
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yev here -> Anyone can write to the B2 Native API or our S3 Compatible API, we have tons of integrations that do it, here's a list -> https://www.backblaze.com/b2/integrations.html

I don't think that's what gp meant. Why not use a standard protcol like SFTP?

I don't see how you could cram all of S3's functionality into sftp? How would you configure a lifecycle policy for a file for example? Or generate a signed URL?

It seems to me you would only get a very narrow subset of the functionality.

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