Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 168 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#141

Post by grawprog »

ballenf wrote: post #95
grawprog wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, most modern fax machines keep a record of things received and transmitted on them. At least the ones at my old work did. We could bring up a week's worth of faxes or something and reprint them.

So your threat vector is still like maybe a few dozen people who have access to the fax machine vs. the entire world? And all those fax machines have a "private" mode where the images don't get saved. On the machines I used. And most only save the cover sheet for sent faxes.

I suppose, I was just more referring to the parent's usage of public fax machines at local stores as being safe for sensitive information. The attack vector might be smaller, but if he's choosing public locations to make sensitive faxes believing it's totally safe, that's not entirely true. The owner of the fax machine, employees in the store and possibly other customers may have access to this info.

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#142

Post by drdeadringer »

tinus_hn wrote: post #120
LeoPanthera wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more secure in one specific way, a warrant is required to wiretap a phone line, but not the internet.

Then again most phone lines run over the internet these days. No idea how that works out with snooping laws.

My home phone is VOIP [I'm one of those early-adopter Ooma people]. I accept that when power goes out my phone dies with it just as I accept the warrant issue. Perhaps this is an unintended "transparency issue" so I won't be fooled thinking that my phone conversations are legally sacred, but at origin it was simply a "I'm not paying for that" deal.

Side Note: Yes I am just old enough to want, and actively go out to have, a home phone albeit with current technology. I'll take retro-futurism when I can get it.

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#143

Post by maerF0x0 »

rabidonrails wrote: post #16

Founder of Phaxio here. Doing fax well is an annoying problem because the protocols are finicy and the carriers don't usually want to spend time troubleshooting issues. Give our API a shot and shoot me a note for some extra credits as a h/t to a fellow HNer. (See profile for email.)

for the lazy: https://www.phaxio.com/docs/

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#144

Post by drdeadringer »

grawprog wrote: post #91
perl4ever wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, when I'm asked to send sensitive documents over unencrypted email or something, then I'd rather use the fax option. And I don't trust any internet gateway, I go to some local store with actual fax machines. I kinda sorta think of it as more secure than the internet, still?

As far as I know, most modern fax machines keep a record of things received and transmitted on them. At least the ones at my old work did. We could bring up a week's worth of faxes or something and reprint them.

During my time working in the [US] DoD industry, I recall exactly one "training" video informing us that multifunction printers have a storage capacity. Think "You scan something, you save something" type of awareness theatre.

It doesn't surprise me that a "modern day fax machine" [why am I even viably capable of saying such a phrase] would have a similar capability.

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#145

Post by drdeadringer »

ballenf wrote: post #95
grawprog wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, most modern fax machines keep a record of things received and transmitted on them. At least the ones at my old work did. We could bring up a week's worth of faxes or something and reprint them.

So your threat vector is still like maybe a few dozen people who have access to the fax machine vs. the entire world? And all those fax machines have a "private" mode where the images don't get saved. On the machines I used. And most only save the cover sheet for sent faxes.

I don't use fax machines very often these days.

I would love to see a "Privacy Button" on more than just browsers and fax machines. Perhaps there's some market there, be it free or money or otherwise.

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#147

Post by Spivak »

ballenf wrote: post #96
hombre_fatal wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where's the insecurity? All of the other security issues aside, how about simply walking over to the unprotected fax machine and leaving with a stack of "private" records? Not sure you want to die on the hill of defending fax security.

Again the threat vector is the people within physical vicinity. People who would then be subject to trespassing or theft charges. And likely caught on camera. Versus the entire world on the internet. Yeah, I'll take fax security over normal email security, thanks.

But the current standard for normal email security is TLS at every leg from inbox to inbox?

I mean I get the dream of not having the consider the network as an adversarial entity but surely they're about the same?

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#148

Post by drdeadringer »

iandanforth wrote: post #81
vegardx wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up until very recently my grandpa would use fax to send complaints to just about anything. It was about as stereotypical grumpy old man as you can imagine. He's a good person, just old-school formal when he writes. Comes of as a bit ... harsh. I thought it was going to end when they dismantled the analog network, and his fax machine with it, but somehow it just got worse. You see, on fax machines you rarely got spam,…

I can't wait to be old and have this much free time. I'm going to annoy the heck out of some youngsters.

"Waste what life I have left? I'll not only waste yours but also the potential of what you've got ahead of you."

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#149

Post by drdeadringer »

gumby wrote: post #29
talles wrote: post #19

Genuine question: why there are folks still using fax?

In the US, clinical medicine and law firms use it because it has an unusual legal status: it’s considered secure and positively delivered if some device at the other end acknowledges it. In Japan many businesses are still wedded to a fax. It’s much easier to scribble a take out order on a piece of paper.

> In Japan many businesses are still wedded to a fax. It’s much easier to scribble a take out order on a piece of paper.

I recall reading how noodle shops in Japan take orders [at least To Go and//or Pick Up] via fax.

Re: Ask HN: Why can't I send faxes from my phone?

#150

Post by drdeadringer »

TylerE wrote: post #50
toast0 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is not based on reality. If I sent you a fax, and your fax machine (of whatever type) printed it out, that copy is legally as good as the original. If I scan, then email, and you print it out, it is not legally as good as the original. It doesn't matter if it makes sense, it is what it is.

I wouldn’t be quite so hard on the law here. The law is based on precedent. Fax was a new technology. For the first time a signed document could be sent over the wire in minutes, instead of having a courier go via train and take days. This is 100 years before computers were common. When computers became common fax was already well established so there was no good reason to add a second exception.

All hail to fax, but only now in the time of COVID-19 has the Supreme Court Of The United States accepted that telephones exist -- let alone as a means of communication, but also as a matter of legal deliberation.

I wonder how long it shall take to have electronic communication to be accepted, legally, as normal and standard across the board.

Post reply on HN