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Bye, Amazon

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Re: Bye, Amazon

#701

Post by specialp »

xenocyon wrote: post #688

My personal snapping point as a consumer occurred several years ago, over something that's definitely not anecdotal: When Amazon employees are frisked at the end of their shift (which is a practice that applies to at least some warehouses), they are not paid for the time they spend waiting in line to be frisked. This is not an anecdote; indeed Amazon fought and won a court case insisting that it has the right to not…

Yes for me too. The fact that Amazon is so cheap that they want employees to sit around for 20-30 minutes after their shift unpaid to get searched to make sure they aren't stealing blew me away. It is one thing if Amazon wants to do this and pay their employees, but to not pay is wrong.

And they felt so strongly about this they appealed a case all the way to the Supreme Court... That was the snapping point for me too and I have not ordered from them in a long time.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#702

Post by sneak »

herdodoodo wrote: post #695
sneak wrote: post #680

> What about AWS? · Amazon Web Services (the “Cloud Computing” arm of the company), where I worked, is a different story. It treats its workers humanely, strives for work/life balance, struggles to move the diversity needle (and mostly fails, but so does everyone else), and is by and large an ethical organization. I find it very difficult to reconcile this statement with the fact that AWS provides services to the US…

[flagged]

I think it is a mistake to equate Microsoft and Amazon's behavior (active collaboration and voluntary engagement in provision of dedicated/custom services or even one-off entire lines of business) and Apple's behavior (we sell the same hardware, unmodified, to everyone who wants to buy it) in this instance.

Addendum (EDIT): Bad phrasing on my part attempting to characterize the behavior. I am not affiliated with Apple in any way.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#703

Post by 0xy »

sneak wrote: post #680

> What about AWS? · Amazon Web Services (the “Cloud Computing” arm of the company), where I worked, is a different story. It treats its workers humanely, strives for work/life balance, struggles to move the diversity needle (and mostly fails, but so does everyone else), and is by and large an ethical organization. I find it very difficult to reconcile this statement with the fact that AWS provides services to the US…

Which AWS service "helps to perpetrate mass murder"? I must've missed that on the AWS website.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#704

Post by chanmad29 »

Amazon deserves this criticism but I think there is nothing to single them out. Most for-profit companies would behave in a similar fashion unless there is a competition for these workers that will force Amazon to treat them better. Since Amazon is operating in virtual monopoly here, there is no incentive for them to behave differently unless there are stronger laws such as minimum wage etc..

Re: Bye, Amazon

#705

Post by kanwisher »

BurningFrog wrote: post #641
NullInvictus wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been involved in both working in services and in the management level of a restaurant business. It is still my opinion that the pay, disposability, lack of dignity, lack of future, lack of community, and disrespect are the primary drivers for bad workplace behavior. Treat people like animals, and they will act like animals. It's just exploitation, and I work my current job with fear of having to go back to tha…

> This is maybe a radical argument, but I make it in good faith; if your business can only exist by paying workers at or below poverty wages, and/or enacting dehumanizing controls, it probably shouldn't exist. The problem is that once you close the business and fire the underpaid employees, they don't disappear. Now they're unemployed and make $0/hour. This blind spot fascinates me. The best explanation I've seen is…

Thanks that blog post was really opened my mind on the topic

Re: Bye, Amazon

#706

Post by Vrondi »

jorblumesea wrote: post #538
oppositelock wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm this, having first hand experience with it. We hired many low-skill workers at a big tech company that you've heard of about ten years ago. These workers received a couple of weeks of training, and then were set to do a rather simple, menial, repetitive job. These workers didn't sell products, but did very low level tech work, but the entire operation was mired in drama. For example, we had a strict no…

Honestly just sounds like lower middle class in America and nothing to do with the job. We don't do a great job taking care of people. Drug user, violence, psychological issues and domestic problems are rampant.

Well, you can't behave in an uncivilized manner, and then expect someone to want to pay you for the privilege of having you around. Particularly if you are also low-skilled or only have skills which are extremely common and therefore low-valued. Menial or "low-skill" labor is not low paid because we don't need it. It is low-paid because the market is perpetually glutted. If you are unable to differentiate yourself to even the tiny extent of just behaving yourself while at work, then you are of course disposable, because literally thousands or millions wait to replace you. Why would any employer want to pay you to come do drugs at work, endangering everyone there and causing them liability? They are not your Mama.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#707

Post by sneak »

xendo wrote: post #698
sneak wrote: post #680

> What about AWS? · Amazon Web Services (the “Cloud Computing” arm of the company), where I worked, is a different story. It treats its workers humanely, strives for work/life balance, struggles to move the diversity needle (and mostly fails, but so does everyone else), and is by and large an ethical organization. I find it very difficult to reconcile this statement with the fact that AWS provides services to the US…

You are basically calling US Military and Government terrorist organizations. If you start with that assumption you can easily get to the point where no US company is ethical and you can't work anywhere.

Both of your statements seem to be objectively false.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#708

Post by taurath »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #122

It's a wake up call, or at least an attempt at that, for the likes of Amazon that if they are looking to have reputable people, like Tim Bray, associate themselves and their name with you, there are certain standards that have to be met. Amazon, MS, Google, Apple, etc. rank among the most wealthy companies in the world and they've each had to deal with internal pressures where their employees voiced concerns about ce…

> Of course as he is pointing out, he's in a position where he can afford to do so financially

I'd just want to point out that the workers who are in the middle are the ones who can afford to do so financially and have the power to make management change things. If you're a programmer and make decent money, consider not putting yourself in a position where you must compromise your morals, such as accepting the company you work for firing whistleblowers over poor work conditions. $100k in the bank makes it a hell of a lot easier to decide to organize.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#709

Post by sneak »

0xy wrote: post #703
sneak wrote: post #680

> What about AWS? · Amazon Web Services (the “Cloud Computing” arm of the company), where I worked, is a different story. It treats its workers humanely, strives for work/life balance, struggles to move the diversity needle (and mostly fails, but so does everyone else), and is by and large an ethical organization. I find it very difficult to reconcile this statement with the fact that AWS provides services to the US…

Which AWS service "helps to perpetrate mass murder"? I must've missed that on the AWS website.

Please click either or both of the first two links I provided. From AWS' own copy:

> With the agility, reliability, and speed of the cloud, teams can quickly build, experiment, and launch new services to provide immediate value to the warfighter.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#710

Post by xendo »

MisterTea wrote: post #687
hourislate wrote: post #615

Completely anecdotal. It's possible some Amazon Warehouses are run better than others. A friend who recently got a job (5 weeks ago) at one of Amazons warehouses (NJ/NYC area) has only praise for the way things are run. They take his temperature 3 times a day, provide a mask, constantly monitor social distancing, clean washrooms every hour, enforce social distancing in any break rooms, work areas, etc. He says it's n…

Parent is spewing anecdotal lies paid for by Amazon. Anyone in NYC has heard the accusations over and over: https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/10/21216172/amazon-coronavir... https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/30/amazon-wo... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-... https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/14/21220899/amazon-fired-a...

Amazon has hundreds of thousands employees. Please, before calling someone a liar, just consider the possibility that anecdotes on both sides are correct.
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