New 13-inch MacBook Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#711

Post by phaedryx » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #336

alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

Genuinely curious, have you had your MacBook Pro knocked over from the power cord since switching away from MagSafe? Lots of people complain about missing MagSafe but I’ve never seen or heard of this actually happening. I’m sure it has happened but it just doesn’t seem like a big problem. For me, just in the past month I’ve had the usb charger yanked out by the cord multiple times by people and pets tripping over it…

I have younger kids, who would sometimes kick my cord with MagSafe and it wouldn't be a big deal; I would just connect again. Now I don't use my laptop around my kids if I'm charging.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#712

Post by 120photo » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

MaintenanceMode wrote: post #632

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out…

They tried something, failed, now they are changing course. That is a plus in my book. I have a 2016 15" MBP and I hate the keyboard. One of the worst laptops ever made by Apple. I hope next they bring back letting user upgrade components (like let me install my own RAM and SSD upgrades.)

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#713

Post by diebeforei485 » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:55 PM UTC

rooam-dev wrote: post #673

arcticbull wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect nobody uses that entire row, so if you're not going to do anything with it besides an escape key, you may as well throw in something interesting.

If that's the case where are the external magic keyboards with touchbars?

I assume it's some combination of price, performance, and battery life on the external keyboard.

You can use the Touch Bar on your iPad (using an app like Duet Display, or even with Sidecar if you have a modern MacBook). I find it to be useful in certain situations.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#714

Post by danso » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

dkonofalski wrote: post #641

MaintenanceMode wrote: post #632

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out…

I'm still surprised that so many people are stuck on the Escape key but it's probably no surprise that the ones that are stuck are all developers using vi or emacs. I love the Touch Bar and had no problem adjusting/remapping and find the utility of the Touch Bar for video and audio editing to be invaluable now. I wasn't sold on it before but, over the last year or so, I'll be really disappointed if they remove it. Ad…

I haven't had an issue with the Touch Bar, but only because 95% of my usage is through a connected mechanical keyboard; the 5% of time that I do use my laptop's keyboard + Touch Bar, I definitely do not enjoy it.

I can sort of understand the potential appeal of it, especially in terms of customization. But even though the Touch Bar is 3 years old, am I the only one who is reluctant to invest time in learning it (this includes learning how to fully customize and optimize it) because it seems like the kind of feature that may soon disappear into obsolescence? It doesn't help that it's the sort of hardware feature that is literally only applicable to 1 of 3 computers I currently use. But unlike other Apple-pioneered hardware features (multitouch trackpad, built-in Touch ID), Touch Bar seems very unlikely to eventually become a popular cross-platform feature.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#715

Post by gowld » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:56 PM UTC

williamdclt wrote: post #699

arcticbull wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used the touch bar for years, and frankly, it's provided me zero value whatsoever. The only thing I use it for is occasionally adjusting volume or brightness but of course I can no longer do that without looking down at what I'm manipulating. Third party apps have totally ignored it. The physical escape key is the second useful thing in the entire function row, but hey at least it's got two useful things now (an…

You can program your touchbar with something like BetterTouchTool. It's laughable that Apple ships the touchbar with such useless functionalities, but you can turn the touchbar into whatever you want, it's an amazing tool. For example, when I open iTerm I have buttons for my local development env (DB, redis, api, frontend, various microservices) color-coded by status and can start/stop them by tapping a button. You c…

Nothing you describe relies on touchbar, only Fn keys

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#716

Post by gowld » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

aweb wrote: post #680

arcticbull wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used the touch bar for years, and frankly, it's provided me zero value whatsoever. The only thing I use it for is occasionally adjusting volume or brightness but of course I can no longer do that without looking down at what I'm manipulating. Third party apps have totally ignored it. The physical escape key is the second useful thing in the entire function row, but hey at least it's got two useful things now (an…

I was of the same opinion as you until I discovered Pock: it's a small tool that puts the dock (and optional controls) in the touchbar. This means I can get more screen real estate while keeping my dock accessible. Frankly I'm now pretty much onboard with the touchbar, except for the probably huge battery consumption.

Auto-Hide dock is easier to reach than touchbar.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#717

Post by rconti » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

Very interesting. I had assumed I'd buy a 13" Pro as a personal laptop replacement for my 2011 Air when they updated the keyboard.

However, when the 2020 Air dropped, I snapped one up because it ticked all the boxes, and I really don't need the "power" of the Pro, especially given its presumed expense.

I bought a loaded Air with 512gb which was I think $1650.

Speccing out the Pro, the pricepoint for a similar machine is actually $1600; $50 cheaper.

Air is 1.2ghz quad core i7 10th gen / 16gb 3733mhz memory / 512gb

Pro is 1.4ghz quad core i5 8th gen / 16gb 2133mhz memory / 512gb.

In the Pro, you also get the touch bar (for better or for worse; I kind of like it, but no big deal). But its' also a heavier, thicker machine.

Also, that Pro is limited in the same way my Air is -- only 2 ports.

So I suspect it's kind of a wash. I bet we'll start seeing benchmarks soon comparing these 2 machines. I haven't dug into bus speed or cache amounts, but it's interesting how much faster the RAM on the Air is; I'm guessing slower bus speed but a higher multiple or something?

For my (home) use case, it really doesn't much matter, I just figured an 'acceptable' Pro would be $1800+, and figured the Air would be more in the $1400 range. FWIW I only really paid for the $150 CPU upgrade on the Air to get it a couple weeks sooner, I'm sure the 1.1ghz quad core i5 was the sweet spot in the lineup for price/performance.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#718

Post by swang » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:57 PM UTC

MaintenanceMode wrote: post #632

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out…

Everyone keeps talking about vi/emacs stuff. While that was annoying, the more annoying aspect was when macOS softlocked and I was unable to hit the chord (cmd+opt+esc) to get the kill task window because the touchbar froze as well.

Having a virtual ESC key in software that can be frozen, where part of your keyboard chord to kill apps includes the ESC key is really, really, stupid and caused me lots of wasted time that could have been saved had there just been a hard ESC key.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#719

Post by dsego » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #336

alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

Genuinely curious, have you had your MacBook Pro knocked over from the power cord since switching away from MagSafe? Lots of people complain about missing MagSafe but I’ve never seen or heard of this actually happening. I’m sure it has happened but it just doesn’t seem like a big problem. For me, just in the past month I’ve had the usb charger yanked out by the cord multiple times by people and pets tripping over it…

I knocked it over with MagSafe and it still failed to disconnect. It was the 2011 L-shaped plug and I managed to yank it at the perfectly wrong angle I suppose. The macbook lived but ended up with scratches and dents (that's how I discovered that an aluminum chassis maybe wasn't the best idea for a laptop). The new flimsy usb-c cable has a better chance of actually disconnecting.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#720

Post by Daniel_sk » Mon, May 04, 2020, 6:59 PM UTC

ericcholis wrote: post #154

alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

I recently switched from an Air to an XPS 15 9570. I was very excited, it seemed to have all the best qualities of a MacBook, minus the shotty keyboard, and superior performance per dollar (at the time). Things went downhill rather quickly. I've had massive cooling issues, I've removed and replaced the thermal paste. I've been forced to operate the laptop on the "Cool" thermal setting; downgrading the performance of…

I had similar experience with 9360. The notebook freezes under heavy load and I have to restart (it happens once a day when working on rather large Android project). The webcam on the bottom left of the screen is a bad joke (I think they moved it elsewhere later?).