681–690 of 1001 posts
I went on an amazon warehouse tour in Tilbury, UK. (1).
It was a tour of everything they do, at one stage they asked the guy stowing to do a demo and he flat out refused because he had to hit his targets.
(1) Amazon UK Services Ltd. Tilbury - LCY2
London Distribution Park, Windrush Rd, Tilbury RM18 7AN https://g.co/kgs/8E4bgd
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Have you considered the possibility that Amazon actually treats their workers okay and that it's the organizers are dishonest? Why does the presumption of evil only go in one direction?
Just compare the incentives for both parts to be dishonest and you have your answer. What would workers gain from being dishonest except the risk of being fired or retaliated upon? And why, if organizers are lying, can't Amazon just disprove them by showing to the public their perfect working conditions? Finally, isn't it a natural instinct to side with the weaker element in a fight? Does Amazon really need your supp…
Union representation and improved compensation and employment benefits.
Not to say either party is being honest or being dishonest. But it's clear there's plenty to gain on both sides by, on the one hand, painting organizers ad bad employees, and on the other hand, painting working conditions as worse than they are.
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It's amazing how this thread got derailed so quickly from "The power disparity between low skill workers generates worse working conditions" to "If we treat low skill workers well, don't we have to support them doing drugs and bringing guns?" Of course not. Allowing needles and guns at your workplace isn't friendlier to employees in general. The discussion went from "Maybe we shouldn't fire them for trying to organiz…
Why is it embarrassing? This is really a problem which employers must deal with. I think what Tim Bray did is heroic, I think that Amazon exploited workers way too much, all in the name of thinner overheads and lowering prices, which is the only thing their customers care about. Tim Bray's resignation won't change things, but if we decide that Amazon's unfair and refuse to patronize them because of their employee tre…
It's a massive derailment from the point that makes it seem like employers are unduly burdened by their employees. It reads as 'Point', 'Counterpoint' but it really isn't -- nobody is going to argue that employees should be allowed to bring drugs and guns or steal from the company.
(Although I imagine "Time theft" mentioned above includes behavior that if high skilled labor did wouldn't raise any eyebrows.)
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By definition, so are the incidents that are reported by NYTimes. Amazon has hundreds of fulfillment centers around the world, and it's possible that the sufferings of some workers are exceptions, not the norm.
If that were the case, you would think that Amazon would address the issues raised my employees instead of firing them. By firing them, they discourage others from coming forward so it’s not really possible to get a good picture of the situation.
> What with big-tech salaries and share vestings, this will probably cost me over a million (pre-tax) dollars ... > The average pay [in his group, AWS] is very high, and anyone who’s unhappy can walk across the street and get another job paying the same or better. Not sure how to square these two statements. Is the lost money all in stock vesting? If so, why bother mentioning the salary? If not, how does that fit wit…
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I have been involved in both working in services and in the management level of a restaurant business. It is still my opinion that the pay, disposability, lack of dignity, lack of future, lack of community, and disrespect are the primary drivers for bad workplace behavior. Treat people like animals, and they will act like animals. It's just exploitation, and I work my current job with fear of having to go back to tha…
The idea that they "shouldn't exist" doesn't make much sense to me. As long as you treat your employees with respect and pay legal wages, who are we to say that the wages are "poverty wages". Many of these low wage, entry level positions are/were meant to be filled by young people, still living with parents, or part time workers who may have a spouse that is the primary earner. The problem is that due to lack of othe…
Completely anecdotal. It's possible some Amazon Warehouses are run better than others. A friend who recently got a job (5 weeks ago) at one of Amazons warehouses (NJ/NYC area) has only praise for the way things are run. They take his temperature 3 times a day, provide a mask, constantly monitor social distancing, clean washrooms every hour, enforce social distancing in any break rooms, work areas, etc. He says it's n…
https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/10/21216172/amazon-coronavir...
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/30/amazon-wo...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/03/nyregion/coronavirus-nyc-...
https://www.vox.com/recode/2020/4/14/21220899/amazon-fired-a...
When Amazon employees are frisked at the end of their shift (which is a practice that applies to at least some warehouses), they are not paid for the time they spend waiting in line to be frisked. This is not an anecdote; indeed Amazon fought and won a court case insisting that it has the right to not compensate employees for this time. (See https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-court-amazon-com/u-s-...)
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You're totally right on the action-reaction bit. And it's the same way at much bigger scales. This American Life did a story on NUMMI, a Toyota/GM joint venture. Toyota took one of GM's worst plants and made it well run and productive, in large part by treating the workers like people. It's very moving: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015 The heartbreaking part is that even when GM saw it happen, they cou…
>Manager-labor hostility was too baked in on the management side Don't forget that it's baked in on the labor side as well. NUMMI was not a 'fix' of a GM plant. It was a new venture started where a previous GM plant had closed.
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I have been involved in both working in services and in the management level of a restaurant business. It is still my opinion that the pay, disposability, lack of dignity, lack of future, lack of community, and disrespect are the primary drivers for bad workplace behavior. Treat people like animals, and they will act like animals. It's just exploitation, and I work my current job with fear of having to go back to tha…
The idea that they "shouldn't exist" doesn't make much sense to me. As long as you treat your employees with respect and pay legal wages, who are we to say that the wages are "poverty wages". Many of these low wage, entry level positions are/were meant to be filled by young people, still living with parents, or part time workers who may have a spouse that is the primary earner. The problem is that due to lack of othe…