Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds • Hacker News Board

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#221

Post by hysan » Mon, May 04, 2020, 4:55 PM UTC

fluidcruft wrote: post #209

hysan wrote: post #198

Not too surprising that the experience wasn’t good. Having taught in-person and online before, I can guarantee that these students ended up with a sub-optimal experience at best. Teaching online is drastically different than in-person and is not something you can easily pick-up in short notice. Made worse is that they were in the middle of a syllabus designed for in-person instruction. How material is delivered, what…

What resources did you find helpful for learning about teaching online?

Sorry, I don't have specific resources to point to although I guess I could eventually take the time to do a write-up. I used to be an in-person instructor at a development bootcamp (also taught prior to this). While there, I was also trained on how to do instruction online for the rare instances where it had to happen. This is where I learned most of it.

I'm also an avid educational content watcher, so I've seen and tried to learn from the best educational content creators over the past decade or so. I've also followed the EdTech space, as a hobby, since before the MOOC acronym even came into existence. Combine all of that with tangentially related hobbies like:

* watching and reading about game design and how to incorporate it into traditional learning styles,

* listening to how podcasts and online content is created/delivered,

and that's where I learned about teaching online effectively. I wish I could continue working in this space, but well... that's a story for another time.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#222

Post by starpilot » Mon, May 04, 2020, 4:59 PM UTC

Terrible HN comments in this thread...

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#223

Post by ModernMech » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

russellbeattie wrote: post #44

> "Some estimate that they could lose up to $1 billion this year as they brace for downturns in student enrollment..." 3.7 million kids graduating this year, 70% of them planning on going to college, and probably 100% of their parents wondering if they should encourage their kid to defer for a year until things get back to normal. The drop in enrollment could be lessened a bit by lowering tuition for pandemic-related…

> probably 100% of their parents wondering if they should encourage their kid to defer for a year until things get back to normal.

Or on the flip side, everyone who starts this fall will have an advantage in the hiring market 4 years from now when fewer than normal graduates are entering the workforce due to those who encouraged their kids to take a year off now.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#224

Post by Wowfunhappy » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

I don't know what the implications would be on finances / resource allocation for the school, but IMO everyone's education should be "paused" right now, including K-12. If you were going to graduate in six months, and the Coronavirus ends up closing campus for six months, you'll now graduate in 12 months, after you've had your due time on campus. And that additional six months of schooling comes at no additional cost.

If I had a reservation at a restaurant before the Coranvirus, and the restaurant is now closed, I'm not forced to buy a take-out order instead—I just don't pay. That really sucks for all the people who work at the restaurant, but I don't think forcing customers to pay for a service they didn't receive is the right solution.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#225

Post by deevolution » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:37 PM UTC

hysan wrote: post #198

Not too surprising that the experience wasn’t good. Having taught in-person and online before, I can guarantee that these students ended up with a sub-optimal experience at best. Teaching online is drastically different than in-person and is not something you can easily pick-up in short notice. Made worse is that they were in the middle of a syllabus designed for in-person instruction. How material is delivered, what…

Online class is suitable for a range of courses, but not all. Specifically lab classes where equipment is required. You can't have a remote lab class, it's impossible. Students should absolutely be reimbursed for such cases.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#226

Post by psim1 » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

I honestly feel badly for colleges and universities that went to incredible effort to accommodate students only to have it shoved back in their faces with litigation. You know who likes remote education even less than students do? Faculty. Advisors. Administrators. Lab techs. Basically everyone. Students are getting their full value and more, while wearing their pajamas.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#227

Post by ColanR » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

psim1 wrote: post #226

I honestly feel badly for colleges and universities that went to incredible effort to accommodate students only to have it shoved back in their faces with litigation. You know who likes remote education even less than students do? Faculty. Advisors. Administrators. Lab techs. Basically everyone. Students are getting their full value and more, while wearing their pajamas.

I agree that no one likes remote classes, but there is no sense in which those students are "getting their full value."

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#228

Post by fonix » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #224

I don't know what the implications would be on finances / resource allocation for the school, but IMO everyone's education should be "paused" right now, including K-12. If you were going to graduate in six months, and the Coronavirus ends up closing campus for six months, you'll now graduate in 12 months, after you've had your due time on campus. And that additional six months of schooling comes at no additional cost…

really get's tough when the 'entry' point of those grades now has double the students (new incoming students; not those also repeating a grade), as people will want their kids to start schooling at the 'normal' (maybe this changes?) age.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#229

Post by carlmr » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

ColanR wrote: post #227

psim1 wrote: post #226

I honestly feel badly for colleges and universities that went to incredible effort to accommodate students only to have it shoved back in their faces with litigation. You know who likes remote education even less than students do? Faculty. Advisors. Administrators. Lab techs. Basically everyone. Students are getting their full value and more, while wearing their pajamas.

I agree that no one likes remote classes, but there is no sense in which those students are "getting their full value."

I've always been kind of autodidactic, so maybe this might not be the opinion of everyone. But I think apart from the degree signaling my employability, meeting and working with smart people was the main benefit of university.

If it's all online you've lost this important place to connect with others. What you learn is basically available for a fraction of the price. It's only the degree that you're left with basically.

Re: Unimpressed by online classes, college students file lawsuits for refunds

#230

Post by hombre_fatal » Mon, May 04, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

furyg3 wrote: post #103

supernova87a wrote: post #2

I remember wondering aloud at MIT/Harvard putting their courses online for free for anyone to listen to, and saying, well what is the value add then of paying to physically go to college? I guess we're going to find out whether the networking, friends, social aspect is worth it. There's also something about the competitive aspect of seeing other people in person do better than you or have better ideas than you. Which…

For me, university was a bit more about direction-finding and serendipity. Few places can expose you to very different things in both a structured and unstructured way as college. When I started university I was a returning student with a budding tech career. I promised myself I would get a degree, but I wasn't totally sure what benefit it would be. I thought I already had the tech skills needed to do what I wanted t…

Something curiously missing from HN threads about uni is the social aspect. I consider my social experience in uni, from living with other students (instead of mom and dad) to studying abroad for a year, just as if not more valuable than the academics, and a major catalyst for finding what I wanted out of life.

There's a lot more to life than credentializing for wage slavery.