New 13-inch MacBook Pro • Hacker News Board

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#381

Post by makecheck » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #197

alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

After several years I can unequivocally say I still hate the touch bar. I love touch ID, but the bar needs to go. USB-C was all about standardizing. I'm still not sure how I feel about it, I did love magsafe, but I also love that in theory someday I'll have one cable to rule them all. And I'll be able to charge my headphones/laptop/phone/random device with a usb-c cable instead of needing 8 of them.

I’ve found that the Touch Bar’s fundamental flaw is that it doesn’t handle unintended touches well (which sadly affects multiple Apple technologies, including my Watch and even the trackpad occasionally), and that is directly related to the fact that it has no raised elements.

Furthermore, one of its main added features — the ability to do gestures that keys can’t do — just isn’t valuable. I haven’t seen a single example of something that was easier to do on the Touch Bar when I have a giant screen and trackpad/mouse already. I don’t need micro-scrubber interfaces or color sliders or Emoji bars, and the volume/brightness sliders are imprecise.

Despite customizing the bar with BetterTouchTool, including “vibrate” feedback, I invariably found I had to remove more and more things from the bar over time. Any functions in the central part of the bar were invariably triggering by accident. It was just too distracting to have things randomly happening when my finger slid onto something that doesn’t feel like an active panel.

Now, therefore, I have a Touch Bar with just a few things: a battery status indicator on the left end (near the thankfully-now-real Esc key), and the brightness/volume/mute on the right (near the wonderful Touch ID). And that’s it. It is literally 70% empty space now. This is ridiculous for something as complex and expense-adding as the Touch Bar. A complete failure of a technology.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#382

Post by mr_custard » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

alexggordon wrote: post #125

I was curious how the 13 inch was priced so I compared it to a new Dell XPS 13. Dell has a better processor (maybe, [2]) , but I couldn't find the option to upgrade the Dell to 4TB internal SSD, so I compared both with the 2 TB option. Ram is the same at 32GB. Dell came out to $2399[0] USD and Apple came out to $2999[1] USD. Dell Pros: * Row of function buttons (I've used BTT to customize my touch-bar to the point wh…

Useful figures, so thanks for providing those. It's been a few months since I last looked into the latest prices. I agree with you that it's still worth it.

However, I feel that without comparing the OS and tight OS integration, this doesn't represent one of the most important aspects of a comparison between the two, when considering a purchase.

I go through this same loop every time I buy a new machine... yes, usually it's "no more Apple for me!" especially when I do the price comparison. So I waver for a couple of weeks whilst I research the latest hardware and Linux distros. But then I end up buying an Apple machine. It's been the same story for me for the last 17 years.

There's plenty of people like me out there that definitely don't want to use Windows, and that want a Unix that gets out of the way. I love Linux, especially on the server, but it's generally too much hassle on a laptop and so I always gravitate back to macos.

If the $600 is an Apple tax for that, then I will gladly continue to pay it. Over the 3 years lifetime of a developer machine (or more!), my time is definitely worth more than $600 compared with constantly fiddling with Linux kernal modules and other hardware support issues. I just want to get some work done without interruptions.

Definitely would love the exact same machine without the TouchBar, though. Perhaps that would shave off $100?

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#383

Post by whywhywhywhy » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

bambataa wrote: post #235

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have same model at work and even ignoring the keyboard the thing has been awful to use. The two ports are a complete nightmare making you have to juggle between power/screen and reliable storage (Tried 5 dongles, none can hold a drive reliably under heavy use). Kernel Panics on waking from sleep almost every day, bluetooth chip crashes and requires restarts to get working again. Not to mention the disgustingly low…

I have the same and it’s making me want to move to a Linux laptop. With the bluetooth chip, do you get an error when it crashes? Airdrop basically never works on mine and I was wondering if it might be a related problem.

Nope it's completely silent failure, only thing noticeable is I think if I toggle it on and off in the menu a few times it will freeze coming back on. But rebooting fixes it.

But yeah AirDrop wont work in the state so it's likely the same issue because on a long enough uptime the chip crashes without fail.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#384

Post by baggy_trough » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:06 PM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #339

sutterbomb wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are the adjustments you made with bettertouchtool?

I have volume and display brightness buttons, also a mute button and play/pause. They are permanent and don’t switch with the application. Pretty much like it was before the Touchbar.... I tried to use the Touchbar for a while without customization but I never could get the hang of it. It just seems useless.

Is that different from System Preferences > Keyboard > Touch Bar shows Expanded Control Strip?

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#385

Post by jaybeeayyy » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:07 PM UTC

RedneckBob wrote: post #338

cHaOs667 wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I HATE the touch bar. I simply H A T E it. I hate it so much that I started to carry an TKL keyboard all the time with me just to avoid using this piece of sh*t touch bar and internal keyboard (MBP 2017). As a developer it is crucial that I can use my keyboard without any looks but as there is no way to tell which function key you press on the touch bar the bar itself is completely useless for me. Beside the butterfl…

I just purged Apple from my life largely because the touchbar continues to live on. Love my new Lenovo, btw. As a workaround for the touchbar that worked pretty well, I bought a silicon keyboard protector for the Apple Magic Keyboard, cut out the area for the function keys, and used hot glue to glue it over the touch bar. Prevented the touchbar from activating at the slightest touch and did return some of the feel of…

So many homemade tweaks to fix glaring issues in expensive, premium products...

Remember the iPhone 4 where you had to hold your phone in a certain way so it wouldn't block the antenna? It's amazing that Apple can pump out products with issues like this year after year and still be a top dog.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#386

Post by rukittenme » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:08 PM UTC

I recently bought the 2020 Macbook Air after breaking my 2017 (18?) Macbook Pro. No touch bar, new "magic" keyboard.

Keyboard is great. I think I still prefer the chiclet keys but these are close enough. Function row is far superior to the touch bar. The touch ID button is great too. Makes using 1password much more convenient.

Small battery (which means fast charge times) and long battery life are huge for me. I've got 8 1/2 hours remaining on 91% after >1 hour of usage.

I unfortunately haven't done any local development on the machine. I ssh into a linux machine on the network. But I don't think the fans ever spin up. And it never feels hot to the touch.

I spent two weeks doing remote dev work with a 2012 Macbook Air and another week doing remote dev work with the 2020 Macbook Air. Since processing power was irrelevant my experience between the two was mixed. The 2020 Air has a better trackpad and screen. But the 2012 Air has the better keyboard. I could have used the 2012 for the rest of my life had it had a better screen.

Anyway... just some thoughts for anyone looking for a new macbook.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#387

Post by fluffything » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:09 PM UTC

nonane wrote: post #74

corey_moncure wrote: post #45

It's astonishing how far the MBP has fallen in ten years. My 2010 MBP was and still is the perfect laptop design. Look what Apple has taken away from us: MagSafe, SD card slot, optical audio I/O, RJ45, USB-A, even the top row of our keyboards. What have we gained? The same internal advances that are in every other computer, a gimmicky touch bar, fragile keyboard mechanism, and USB-C. What's really sad is that none of…

MagSafe was flawed - I’m glad it’s gone. It had massive reliability issues due to dust getting in between the connectors - which ending up causing charging problems, excessive heat at the charging port and countless charging adapter replacements.

On a 2013 Macbook air, MagSafe has worked perfectly for me for the last 7 years. Saved my laptop a couple of times too. Way more worth it than AppleCare.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#388

Post by neuronic » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:09 PM UTC

thathndude wrote: post #18

Disappointed we didn't see a 14" in a 13.3" body, or anything otherwise exciting here. I for one prefer the butterfly keyboard. So the magic keyboard is at best a neutral move (I think a downgrade). For those folks who loathe the butterfly, I'm sure they'll be delighted at a 13" with the new magic keyboard. For me, it looks like the 2018 will continue to be on my desk. Happy that I maxed it at time of purchase. Maybe…

Probably have hard-coded screen paint calculations for typical macOS and a need for massive multi-year refactor to allow non-typical screen sizes (e.g. 1cm more when removing the bezels on 13").

Semi-sarcasm.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#389

Post by harha » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:09 PM UTC

Is there a good way to figure out how much performance is best suited?

I’m considering an upgrade to my 2013 MBP retina and it would be great to know how different configurations play out in terms of speed and battery life.

Typical benchmarks are quite difficult to translate to real life usage.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#390

Post by AnonC » Mon, May 04, 2020, 3:10 PM UTC

It looks like the frustrations just add up when you look at different factors.

In this lineup, the first two models are the 8th generation processors whereas the top model (starting at $1799) is the one with the latest 10th generation processors (but that still comes with a stingy 512GB SSD).

Another thing is that SSD storage on Apple Macs is expensive, and they can no longer be upgraded after purchase (since they have the T2 chip and are soldered on to the logic board). This would be kinda ok to put up with just for the combination of hardware and software, but poorly designed software makes the experience worse. Photos and videos take up a lot of space, and Apple's default app, Photos really sucks. You can't move the photos library to an external (cheaper hard) drive and live peacefully. If you do, then you might find yourself unable to eject said drive because there are background processes that launch themselves and keep your photos library in use even if nothing has changed and even when you've let them run for a day or a few days before to finish). Apple seems to be doing a terrible job on the software front (I don't even want to talk about other issues in Catalina). Is there any other alternative for photos on Mac that works well and can also import photos and videos from iOS devices (on to an external drive)?