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Bye, Amazon

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Re: Bye, Amazon

#341

Post by unreal37 »

dandare wrote: post #242

> Only that’s not just Amazon, it’s how 21st-century capitalism is done. I am really tired of all these off-hand attacks on capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system. It is characterized by private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. If you prefer a centralized or shared economy, that is fine, although I was born in a communist country and I bet you have no idea what you wish for.…

Also, there's an argument to be made that America is not actually truly capitalist.

The government intervenes in the market all the time, especially now. Nothing big is allowed to fail. $Trillions to keep the party going.

That's not capitalism.

Even Buffett is sitting this "recovery" out because he can see the lack of a free market.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#342

Post by [deleted] »

stupidcar wrote: post #20

> At the end of the day, it’s all about power balances. The warehouse workers are weak and getting weaker... Whenever I speak to someone working in a "low-skilled" job, I'm always astonished and embarrassed by how different their work environment sounds to the kind of offices I work in. There seems to be a consistent theme of employees being treated with suspicion, condescension and outright hostility. This gets to t…

[deleted]

Re: Bye, Amazon

#343

Post by _ea1k »

enitihas wrote: post #88
mercury_craze wrote: post #81

Amazon is a great evil. It will not be remembered as a company that has had been a positive influence on the world but as a company that has treated its employees (both hourly and salaried) with contempt, driven independent stores out of business and refused to play on a level playing field both through its shady business practices or its refusal to pay tax. Well done to Tim Bray for acting according to his conscienc…

Which is the mythical company treating their low-skill workers far better than Amazon? Does the rest of big tech even employ their non professionals directly? Which of big tech directly employ their janitors and treat them much better than Amazon warehouse workers? Which of big non tech company does this? >its refusal to pay tax. What do you even mean by this? Companies can't refuse to pay tax. They have to pay tax a…

> Again, which is the mythical company you are using as a benchmark here?

Exactly. These kinds of criticisms are useless without a benchmark. Is Wal-Mart better, for example?

Re: Bye, Amazon

#344

Post by marcus_holmes »

CalRobert wrote: post #235
bob33212 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warren Buffet's has a famous quote about time being the only valuable thing he has. Once you have enough money to cover food/housing/healthcare/transportation it seems stupid to spend a lot of your time helping an organization that you don't like, even if they are paying you well. What is impressive here is that he make his decision public. Plenty of people have moral issues with their company and just say that they…

This is the challenge with large mortgages and heath care requirements taking away people's moral agency. Maybe that's the idea.

Talking to US friends about jobs is always weird because they're so afraid of quitting/being fired, because their health insurance is tied to their jobs. This whole system conspires to make people afraid and subservient. Why you guys haven't replaced it with someone that actually frees you, is always a mystery to me.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#345

Post by [deleted] »

alharith wrote: post #259
stupidcar wrote: post #20

> At the end of the day, it’s all about power balances. The warehouse workers are weak and getting weaker... Whenever I speak to someone working in a "low-skilled" job, I'm always astonished and embarrassed by how different their work environment sounds to the kind of offices I work in. There seems to be a consistent theme of employees being treated with suspicion, condescension and outright hostility. This gets to t…

I don't want to disagree with most of what you are saying, but this is where I can always tell the majority of HN hasn't started a non-tech, low skill business before (restaurants, sales, salons, construction, etc). Your workers consistently put you in bad positions. People will call out for no reason, no shows are frequent. Sometimes you just get people that completely disappear. That's fine in the tech world where…

[deleted]

Re: Bye, Amazon

#346

Post by azernik »

dandare wrote: post #242

> Only that’s not just Amazon, it’s how 21st-century capitalism is done. I am really tired of all these off-hand attacks on capitalism. Capitalism is an economic system. It is characterized by private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. If you prefer a centralized or shared economy, that is fine, although I was born in a communist country and I bet you have no idea what you wish for.…

"21st-century capitalism" is a system - it is characterized by low worker negotiating leverage, a fragile social safety net, and low or nonexistent effective taxes on businesses. He may have been better served by qualifying it as "21st-century American capitalism", but in context that is quite clear.

There were specific kinds of corruption and abuses that the Soviet system encouraged and abetted; there are specific kinds of corruption and abuses that the current American system encourages and abets. The system is indeed responsible for those abuses, just like any other system.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#347

Post by alharith »

toyg wrote: post #296
alharith wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to disagree with most of what you are saying, but this is where I can always tell the majority of HN hasn't started a non-tech, low skill business before (restaurants, sales, salons, construction, etc). Your workers consistently put you in bad positions. People will call out for no reason, no shows are frequent. Sometimes you just get people that completely disappear. That's fine in the tech world where…

"If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys." Manual labor in many sectors is structurally underpaid. Nobody with half a brain would ever choose waiting tables as a career, even if they enjoyed it. So you're left with people with no choice or with mental-health issues (or both), who often resent having to do the job. Whether that's by design or a collateral effect of certain societal and economic structures, is open to disc…

I somehow knew this would be the first comment. Unfortunately, for these industries, where you sell real goods at affordable prices (not over-inflated fantasyland prices to your "enterprise" customers) margins are razor thin. This is the sector of the economy that has been YoY consistently left behind since the Bush-Oil eras drove prices sky high. Trying my best not trying to sound snooty, but again this shows once more that the majority of people here really haven't ran a business like this.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#348

Post by montecarl »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #303
krig wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an utter disaster this society is if having a conscience makes you "radioactive" to employers. I can only aspire to be as radioactive as possible, then.

The real disaster is that people are cynical enough to believe and continue to popularise this myth. Most people think of themselves as fundamentally good . Considering someone who has made decisions based on (well-argued) ethical beliefs to be dangerous would contradict their image of self. And if there's one thing people abhor, it's being inconsistent in their believes about themselves. Ergo: nobody not working for…

> Most people think of themselves as fundamentally good.

Everybody thinks they are the hero of their own story. In fact, its almost required that individuals view themselves in this way. If you think you are evil and cannot justify your actions, it is really hard to get out of bed in the morning.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#349

Post by gilrain »

supergeek133 wrote: post #324
stupidcar wrote: post #20

> At the end of the day, it’s all about power balances. The warehouse workers are weak and getting weaker... Whenever I speak to someone working in a "low-skilled" job, I'm always astonished and embarrassed by how different their work environment sounds to the kind of offices I work in. There seems to be a consistent theme of employees being treated with suspicion, condescension and outright hostility. This gets to t…

I think this is a two way street. If you've never been involved at a management or ownership level of a business that has "low pay" labor (e.g., food service, warehouse, retail sales). For every 2-3 decent workers there is one that just takes pure advantage of the environment (e.g., stealing product, stealing time, etc). Sometimes this occurs at great cost for a period of time before it is discovered. EDIT: This was…

You're claiming that 1/2 to 1/3 of employees are criminally stealing time or product from their workplace. I need some robust citations for that, because it's ridiculous on its face.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#350

Post by baggachipz »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #344
CalRobert wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the challenge with large mortgages and heath care requirements taking away people's moral agency. Maybe that's the idea.

Talking to US friends about jobs is always weird because they're so afraid of quitting/being fired, because their health insurance is tied to their jobs. This whole system conspires to make people afraid and subservient. Why you guys haven't replaced it with someone that actually frees you, is always a mystery to me.

Believe me, it's a mystery to many of us living here as well.
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