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YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

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Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#801

I very strongly feel that we should be very careful to avoid adopting a legalistic attitude towards freedom of speech. That is, I am opposed to the argument that private corporations are not bound by the first amendment, and therefore it's okay for them to suppress content. I agree that they're not bound by the first amendment (I don't claim to understand the nuances of the "platform" laws so I won't address that), b…

the askhistorians mods adressed this - the problem is the bullshit asymmetry principle:

'Bullshit Asymmetry Principle' states the amount of energy needed to refute bullshit is an order of magnitude greater than that needed to produce it. Bullshit can be propagated quickly, but can be more difficult to disprove.

see https://slate.com/technology/2018/07/the-askhistorians-subre...

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#802
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deplatforming works, that's proven. The truth is more fragile than you think.

If it's so fragile, perhaps it's worth examining whether it's really truth. In my experience, truth is strong, and those who want to restrict speech probably aren't arguing for truth, but for their version of some ideology.

[deleted]

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since YouTube is a general platform and that no serious alternatives exist, we should advocate for less censorship. Disagree. Online misinformation can kill people [0] and act as a recruitment tool for Nazis [1]. Less seriously, it can result in people burning down 5G towers. There's plenty to lose by YouTube hosting this stuff, and they're under no obligation to do so in the name of free speech. It strikes me as o…

Who decides what content gets censored?

My comment was on the topic of YouTube's content policies.

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I won't address that argument here but personally I think it's a very dangerous way of thinking The problem is you’ve just said you won’t address the primary, most compelling reason to take these actions. Assuming that “sunshine is the best disinfectant” presupposes a lot of things about society that are, in my observation, no longer true. We do not have the time, through our own actions or not, for quiet contempla…

Yes, by not addressing that I put myself in the trap where I was forced to respond to it anyway in a later comment. So, in order to avoid repeating myself, I believe I addressed that notion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23063309 In short, I am not saying that the truth will necessarily "win out" over the false. Rather I am saying - and this was my fault for not being clear enough - that I reject the noti…

> Remove blatant calls for violence

So you are in favor of censorship, just with different parameters.

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> What is right wing about claiming 5g causes covid? Nothing. I hadn't meant to imply it was, but I can see how my comment could be read that way.

So what is "far-right" that needs to be silenced, and why? Do you also want the "far-left" silenced?

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well thats my point, they werent forced underground. My mistake, I misfollowed your logic. > it was not socially acceptable to have a reasonable conversation around them without being labeled racist Well, that's because Trump is an outspoken racist, the GOP is also pretty racist (but better at keeping it quiet), and Brexit was largely predicated on racism.

Do you really believe there are 15,188,406 racists in the UK and 62,984,828 racists in the USA? If you truly believe that then I feel sorry for you, because you live in a really sad world. Is that really the experience you have living in or visiting these countries or travelling around them, that 1 in 2 people you meet are racist? I think its a bit lazy and easy to substitue fringe views from within these two camps a…

How many racists would you guess are in the USA? I ask because it seems like you're using a very binary definition of the word.

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#808
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing this isn’t censorship. It’s a non-governmental media company curating and policing the content it chooses to host and promote.

Where do people get this idea that it’s only censorship if the government does it? Regardless of your view on this, it’s censorship. Period.

Media companies should be required to host and promote anyone’s content no matter what? If I send a video to you should you be required to host it on your website?

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#809
post #462
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube is just a video advertising platform. Anyone can host a video virtually anywhere on the internet. You don’t have a right to use YouTube. If you want to upload some videos spreading some fake news propaganda there are quite literally thousands of different sites and services to do that. Google and YouTube have no legal or moral obligation to allow you to use their specific services. The only grey area here is…

I think it's very curious how we see the same people say that Google Must Remove Disinformation, and moments later they say it doesn't matter anyway. Why ask them to remove it then? And besides didn't you (in the plural sense) argue it's up to them as a private company? It's such a mess of contradictions.

I am actually on record mocking this move by Google. Maybe the consensus on HN is what you say, but this site trends toward groupspeak and mass downvoting for opinions they don’t like. I wouldn’t necessarily take the top comments as the actual consensus.

Re: YouTube has deleted the account of David Icke

#810

I very strongly feel that we should be very careful to avoid adopting a legalistic attitude towards freedom of speech. That is, I am opposed to the argument that private corporations are not bound by the first amendment, and therefore it's okay for them to suppress content. I agree that they're not bound by the first amendment (I don't claim to understand the nuances of the "platform" laws so I won't address that), b…

You're basically just saying about YouTube/Google what people have been saying about any large corporation that does things that are legal but less than agreeable.

The difference is, if you think that WalMart's practices are bad for small businesses, you can stop going to WalMart and only shop at small businesses, and pretty much get the exact same products. You can vote with your wallet.

But on YouTube, you have no power as a consumer. You are the product. And boycotting YouTube traps you in a world of YouTube rejects, forced to construct their own platforms, who more often than not are right-wing extremists pushing violence, intolerance, and misinformation.

YouTube is a town where WalMart is the only grocer. You can give in to the large corporation to get what you need, or you can eat out at fast food joints for every meal.

So really, you have only three choices:

1. Get the laws changed so that the First Amendment applies to private companies, stripping them of their own freedom to cull what they publish, and making misinformation and violent speech much more difficult to address.

2. Accept that there is nothing you can do to compel Google to do or not to do things that they aren't legally compelled to, especially when the decisions they are making revolve around selling as many ads as they can to their customers (the advertisers) not making the product the sell (you, the viewer) happy.

3. Accept that Capitalism is why you have no power here, and work towards a future in which large corporations don't have the power to control and suppress you without recourse. Or sell your data and attention as a product as they act as the largest VoD platform in existence.

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