Live data from Hacker News

Bye, Amazon

tbray.org

71–80 of 1001 posts

Re: Bye, Amazon

#71
>humans in the warehouses as fungible units of pick-and-pack potential. Only that’s not just Amazon, it’s how 21st-century capitalism is done.

That's the part that scares me - it's not just Amazon. Automation hasn't even kicked off properly and we've already got humans being replaceable at best

Re: Bye, Amazon

#72

> It’s that Amazon treats the humans in the warehouses as fungible units of pick-and-pack potential. Only that’s not just Amazon, it’s how 21st-century capitalism is done. Stung me the most. Capitalism seems to have such an increasingly firm grip on the world that I'm starting to think the only way out is from some drastic worldwide event (Corona?).

What is so bad about treating somebody as someone who can pick and pack your parcels? It's just a job? And what does it have to do with Capitalism. You think under Socialism they would care about your individuality? No they wouldn't - Socialism is a Collectivist ideology, after all. The way to strengthen workers is to increase demand for their work, or find ways to make their (limited) skills more useful, or give the…

Because the way these people are treated relies entirely on the fact that their social status and education is so bad that they cannot effectively put demands on their working conditions, it's not like if they quit there is magically a different job on offer they can get to; none of them are doing it out of authentic volition. You're also completely disregarding the fact that people working in amazon warehouses are tracked the entire time, put under a lot of unnecessary stress and denied basic needs.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#73
post #58

This is what being a capital-A Ally looks like. I take my hat off to you, sir.

with the emphasis on Capital (his millions) The joke being "ally" is a term used by those fighting against the injustices of capitalism, and this dude has millions from literally being the Boss and accrued from exploitation. Of course that doesn't matter as he's now a good guy speaking up for the oppressed. It's quite amusing if you believe in anti-capitalism.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. It often takes a while for us to internalize and accept how some hard things and maybe he spent years trying to make sense of this problem and finally reached a breaking point.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can trust that it's the real reason, because either way it's going to make him radioactive for the next gig like this. No large company keeps its hands completely clean. Defense contracts, Chinese censorship, exploiting addiction, anticompetitive behaviour, sexism, the list goes on. Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when yo…

> Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when you have a scandal is a dumb idea. Having a toxic work culture in warehouses seems a dumb idea too.

To me, toxic work culture is having a boss that's an arsehole - it doesn't begin to cover the amazon warehouses where people are pissing in bottles to maintain the targets they need to keep their jobs.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#75

How does resigning better serve the cause than conscientious refusal to take part in despisable activities and get fired instead?

He wasn’t directly involved with the response to the whistleblowers, people higher up at Amazon were (it sounds like he wasn’t VP of the entire company but of the web services section specifically).

Re: Bye, Amazon

#76

This is what being a capital-A Ally looks like. I take my hat off to you, sir.

He's just somebody with FY money in the bank so he can do whatever he wants in a larger scope than others. I'll keep my hat on; this is nothing special in his position.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#77
post #69
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also 64. That's near retirement age, and I imagine he can afford to retire early.

He has a few reasons to retire -- and a few reasons not to retire. And he laid them out for us about a year and a half ago: https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2018/10/25/On-Retire... > Progressive friends, people whose opinions I respect, give me shit about working for Amazon. I claim that the problem is capitalism, flaccid labor laws, and lame antitrust enforcement, not any particular company; maybe I’m right.…

Both his friends and him could be right. If you attempt to survive in a caustic environment, you will become caustic yourself.

Show me one corporation that doesn't have some scandal in it. Or even better a multinational corporation.

If you play by the "rules" and don't anger anyone, you're going to lose to everyone not playing by them.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#78

> I quit in dismay at Amazon firing whistleblowers Assuming this is the real true reason (I would trust Tim, but you never know, so just being explicit here), it takes huge balls to do something like this. The economic loss has to be somewhat taken in relation to your total wealth (e.g. if you lose $1M by quitting but you already have $10M+ in the bank, it's not as hard as if you had zero in the bank), but still... V…

It doesn’t require huge balls, it requires ranking virtue signalling over monetary gain. Firing whistleblowers is a terrible thing but after forming/joining an activist group demanding that your employer addresess climate change, and promoting Naomi Klein as a spokesperson for the blue collar workers at the same corporation, I suspect that your ability to distinguish between whistleblower and social justice activist is compromised.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#79

> I quit in dismay at Amazon firing whistleblowers Assuming this is the real true reason (I would trust Tim, but you never know, so just being explicit here), it takes huge balls to do something like this. The economic loss has to be somewhat taken in relation to your total wealth (e.g. if you lose $1M by quitting but you already have $10M+ in the bank, it's not as hard as if you had zero in the bank), but still... V…

I think you can trust that it's the real reason, because either way it's going to make him radioactive for the next gig like this. No large company keeps its hands completely clean. Defense contracts, Chinese censorship, exploiting addiction, anticompetitive behaviour, sexism, the list goes on. Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when yo…

it goes both ways though: another company might hire tbray not only for his skills, but also to signal potential employees they're taking the health and safety of their workforce seriously. at least i hope this might be the case.

Re: Bye, Amazon

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can trust that it's the real reason, because either way it's going to make him radioactive for the next gig like this. No large company keeps its hands completely clean. Defense contracts, Chinese censorship, exploiting addiction, anticompetitive behaviour, sexism, the list goes on. Having a public figure at your company that's willing to martyr themselves to push the knife in just a little deeper when yo…

A company that hires him signals that it has nothing to hide, so I think this might just work out fine for him.

That signal reaches a few industry insiders paying close attention. This will probably make the NY Times. They're many orders of magnitude apart in terms of impact.

I believe Tim is making a real sacrifice here, which is why it's so rare and impressive.

Post reply on HN