US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M • Hacker News Board

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#191

Post by piva00 » Mon, May 04, 2020, 8:38 AM UTC

alden_penny wrote: post #144

s5300 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite tired and ill right now so I'm unfortunately not going to be able to write this out even slightly well... but for some reason, I want to post the thought anyway so I will. (Note: I'm a U.S. citizen) In short: As an engineering student with quite severe chronic illness that also got fucked over by abusive parents/a broken home I couldn't escape even with scholarships... I simply can't come to the moral conclusio…

I'm a software engineer and have given considerable thought to leaving the US because I am struggling to come to terms with how my taxes are spent and politics in general here. It's universally bad. I'm considering Finland, Sweden, Norway, or Switzerland. They all rank high in happiness, high in democratic representation, and low in corruption. All are difficult to immigrate to but I basically feel a moral obligation…

Switzerland is difficult to immigrate to, wouldn't say the same about Finland, Sweden and Norway though, quite the contrary if you are a software engineer.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#192

Post by piva00 » Mon, May 04, 2020, 8:44 AM UTC

nickff wrote: post #141

JSavageOne wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is largely the democratic system itself. The average U.S. Senator spends 2/3 of their time fundraising during the last 2 years of their term. Half of Congress are millionaires, their salaries are in the 95th percentile ($174k/yr), and they receive world-class healthcare. The electoral college means Trump and Bush get elected despite losing the popular vote. We're limited to a two-party system because thir…

Many people dislike the 'easy verify and submit' system of taxes, because they think it basically hides taxes from the public. There are similar objections to employer deduction of taxes. Additionally, the current system of many different taxes on different things makes it very hard for a voter to understand what their total tax burden is (especially if there are VATs which are included in prices). For these reasons,…

How can "easy verify and submit" hide taxes from the public?

Here in Sweden I receive my tax form pre-filled in a digital mailbox (basically a PDF of the tax form I'd get through snail mail on a website), I can see on the first page the total amount of tax paid, how much I owe or will receive as tax return and then another section with more details about interest I've paid, how much of that was deducted from my taxes, etc.

In about 5 minutes I have an overview of all the taxes paid from my income, how much went to the national, kommun/local government and I'm done.

I don't follow what is the argument about how making this process simple is considered anti-democratic.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#193

Post by kstenerud » Mon, May 04, 2020, 8:54 AM UTC

flipgimble wrote: post #99

This article has an unexpected resonance for me after several weeks of pandemic lockdown. Just three months ago I would have laughed it off. Now I am increasingly pissed off. In the US, but I see reflection of this in Europe as well, has allowed irresponsible puerile imbeciles to be elected. These people play games with wealth and power, with no regard to the lives and well-being of the society that pays for it. I di…

The issue in America is split between cultural baggage and the first-past-the-post voting system.

FPTP voting collapses into a two-party system, which ultimately leads to a government and people at war with itself. Under such a system, compromises become impossible, sabotage the norm, and nobody can get anything meaningful done anymore. The loudest man wins.

The cultural baggage comes from the Cold War. If you look at popular media from the time, you'll see a very strong connection between "communism" and "science" (because the USSR placed such great faith in science as the saviour of their people and a vindication of their way of life). American TV, books and movies conflated science and anything "sciency" with commies and conspiracies to enslave the common man, but it's hard to blame them since they were taking their cue from the spirit of the times.

To this day, there are few countries with such a heavy distrust of science as America has. And since the alternatives for explaining complex things are religion, superstitions, and "folksy wisdom", it's no wonder that such people get elected to office. And since it's a two-party system, belligerence is a virtue.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#194

Post by celticninja » Mon, May 04, 2020, 9:16 AM UTC

cglace wrote: post #169

s5300 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite tired and ill right now so I'm unfortunately not going to be able to write this out even slightly well... but for some reason, I want to post the thought anyway so I will. (Note: I'm a U.S. citizen) In short: As an engineering student with quite severe chronic illness that also got fucked over by abusive parents/a broken home I couldn't escape even with scholarships... I simply can't come to the moral conclusio…

Good luck with that. There is a very large portion of the population that believe this administration has left the world better than they found it.

perhaps in the United States, a large portion of the population of the planet certainly does not think so.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#195

Post by pjc50 » Mon, May 04, 2020, 9:21 AM UTC

magicsmoke wrote: post #15

intopieces wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The coronavirus has made it pretty clear that America is completely unprepared for any sort of major deviation from "normal". This is the nature of the US system of competitive federalism. States only coordinate with the federal government when either (a) it's politically expedient, because the ruling party in the same for both at that time, or (b) the federal government forces this issue, at which time lawsuits en…

It's pretty interesting that most countries in Europe are unitary states while most countries in the Americas are federal states. Maybe due to the centuries of warfare in Europe the states that survived were unitary states that could better handle external threats. Or maybe it's a holdover from a tradition of monarchy that the Americas never had. Interestingly, Germany is also a federal state. Yet we never seem to he…

A hint as to the US federal infighting is that very few other countries have statues to the side that lost the civil war. Or other similarly traumatic wars; the Communist countries have demolished their statues of Lenin or herded them into museums, even Spain has removed its last statue of the dictator Franco.

(Not to say that you can't see the faultlines in other European societies though. Ireland's parties inherit from her civil war. The UK has not entirely given up on anti-Catholicism, and has forgotten that its own most recent civil war only ended in 1998. I would put money on East vs West still being somewhat live in German politics, but conducted with a good deal more dignity)

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#196

Post by masonic » Mon, May 04, 2020, 9:23 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #193

flipgimble wrote: post #99

This article has an unexpected resonance for me after several weeks of pandemic lockdown. Just three months ago I would have laughed it off. Now I am increasingly pissed off. In the US, but I see reflection of this in Europe as well, has allowed irresponsible puerile imbeciles to be elected. These people play games with wealth and power, with no regard to the lives and well-being of the society that pays for it. I di…

The issue in America is split between cultural baggage and the first-past-the-post voting system. FPTP voting collapses into a two-party system, which ultimately leads to a government and people at war with itself. Under such a system, compromises become impossible, sabotage the norm, and nobody can get anything meaningful done anymore. The loudest man wins. The cultural baggage comes from the Cold War. If you look a…

  the USSR placed such great faith in science as the saviour of their people and a vindication of their way of life

Perhaps you need to read some history. USSR socialist "science" resulted in a horrendously mismanaged economy and multiple famines (1920s: 5+ million dead; 1930-33, another 5 million; 1946-47: over 1 million dead).

In all three cases, the leading relief efforts (and vast improvements to Soviet agriculture) were provided by those "anti-science" Americans.

Given what a horribly ignorant "anti-science" place America is, it's baffling that so many of y'all want to go there to live.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#197

Post by taylorhou » Mon, May 04, 2020, 9:25 AM UTC

benrbray wrote: post #152

s5300 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite tired and ill right now so I'm unfortunately not going to be able to write this out even slightly well... but for some reason, I want to post the thought anyway so I will. (Note: I'm a U.S. citizen) In short: As an engineering student with quite severe chronic illness that also got fucked over by abusive parents/a broken home I couldn't escape even with scholarships... I simply can't come to the moral conclusio…

I've had the same thought and it sickens me that we've come to this point. As someone who has made the transition from teenager to young adult during the Trump era, I feel like I've lost a game I never even had the chance to play. We have clearly gone so far off course but very few seem interested in steering us back to reality (between the impeachment "trial", the primaries, and our handling of COVID-19). After four…

I feel like there are many more folks that would vote for Trump in spite of Biden "winning" the Democratic nod. 1000% agree that the next president is going to be left holding the bag of sht and get blamed for everything so might as well let it be Trump.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#198

Post by masonic » Mon, May 04, 2020, 9:28 AM UTC

harikb wrote: post #76

maxerickson wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple world governments anticipated a novel respiratory virus. Especially post the first SARS. For whatever reason, the US managed to take the idea seriously for decades and then not really be prepared once it actually happened.

Some states like CA were prepared, but the federal government can’t leave these things for states to fend for themselves. At some point somebody somewhere will try to save a few million to make a budget match. Federal government burned 10 times that amount, probably the same day, on military [1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-27/coronavi...

  Some states like CA were prepared

By what definition of the word was CA "prepared"? There was an improved pandemic infrastructure provided under Schwarzenegger, but that was completely gutted by Brown and left there by Newsom.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#199

Post by taylorhou » Mon, May 04, 2020, 9:28 AM UTC

s5300 wrote: post #135

flipgimble wrote: post #99

This article has an unexpected resonance for me after several weeks of pandemic lockdown. Just three months ago I would have laughed it off. Now I am increasingly pissed off. In the US, but I see reflection of this in Europe as well, has allowed irresponsible puerile imbeciles to be elected. These people play games with wealth and power, with no regard to the lives and well-being of the society that pays for it. I di…

Quite tired and ill right now so I'm unfortunately not going to be able to write this out even slightly well... but for some reason, I want to post the thought anyway so I will. (Note: I'm a U.S. citizen) In short: As an engineering student with quite severe chronic illness that also got fucked over by abusive parents/a broken home I couldn't escape even with scholarships... I simply can't come to the moral conclusio…

Trump 2020 only since it seems not enough people think we haven't learned sht and hell, think we are somehow a better country because of him. Let it burn and maybe AOC can start with a clean slate in 2024.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#200

Post by kstenerud » Mon, May 04, 2020, 9:31 AM UTC

masonic wrote: post #196

kstenerud wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue in America is split between cultural baggage and the first-past-the-post voting system. FPTP voting collapses into a two-party system, which ultimately leads to a government and people at war with itself. Under such a system, compromises become impossible, sabotage the norm, and nobody can get anything meaningful done anymore. The loudest man wins. The cultural baggage comes from the Cold War. If you look a…

the USSR placed such great faith in science as the saviour of their people and a vindication of their way of life Perhaps you need to read some history. USSR socialist "science" resulted in a horrendously mismanaged economy and multiple famines (1920s: 5+ million dead; 1930-33, another 5 million; 1946-47: over 1 million dead). In all three cases, the leading relief efforts (and vast improvements to Soviet agriculture…

I'm well aware of what happened in the USSR. What they believed and what actually happened are entirely different things.

My point is that the USSR's fanatical devotion to a flawed religion of "science" had ripple effects to the USA, their sworn mutual enemy. When one side takes on a slogan to rally their tribe, the opposing side must distance themselves from it, which in this case meant that America distanced itself from trust in their own scientific institutions for fear of appearing to support the enemy tribe's position (it was an ideological and cultural war, and everyone was watching). That official distrust of science spread into a cultural distrust that resonates to this day.

Note: I'm not blaming America here; this is the nature of culture (regardless of who it is), and it couldn't have happened any other way in their competition, given Moscow's "science the saviour" position. It's just unfortunate that this is part of the fallout.