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Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

horizon-eda.org

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Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#31
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I installed the software in a Windows 10 VM to try it out and it fails pretty early with a message that says: Glib::Error: No GL implementation is available. Couldn't find much to help me out figure out how to fix that issue, I assume it's some missing dependency but... where do I go from here?

Gtk's and horizon's OpenGL requirements (3.3 core profile + extensions) likely aren't met by whatever graphics adapter your VM implementation provides.

That seems a little excessive.

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#32
Would love to see more features supporting RF. Obviously the dream would be a 2D or 2.1D mesh/simulate built in, but would settle for less.

An easy starting point is better import/export of layouts. Designing an antenna in my RF-specific CAD suite is great, but when I actually have to build the thing, all I get is DXFs. Converting DXF to gerbers is a mess in KiCAD. Same goes if I want to reverse the pipe and simulate my layout.

Staying in the OSS realm, QUCS (open source ADS equivalent) has RF circuit simulation, just needs some help implementing auto-layout. This would make it trivial to e.g. optimize a simple transmission line circuit, and have it fabbed. That'd be huge for opening up simple microwave circuits to the DIY/"hacker" community.

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#33
post #29
post #24

The PCB EDA space really needs some competition. Kicad is really getting there, it "just" needs some UI improvements (Automation of the Schematic->Netlist->pcbnew flow would be nice) and also some of the big boy features like signal integrity and heat etc. Altium is probably the only clean PCB experience at the moment, and even that sits at 10% CPU on my machine with an empty schematic and no PCB open. The more esote…

You’ll never get those add-ons in a free package, as it takes institutional knowledge and full-time work to develop it, which cost $$. Cadence, Keysight, etc. provide the licenses to universities, not individual students, but they are pretty easy to get. Sounds like you need to work the channels through a professor.

Easier said than done when you're studying physics rather than EE, and during lockdown. I've got the software now, it just took a ridiculously long amount of time for them to give me a generic text file. Altium didn't work at all so I definitely didn't borrow a friends .edu email wink wink.

The Keysight website doesn't actually have a list of universities in its software program so I didn't bother checking whether I could apply.

> You’ll never get those add-ons in a free package, as it takes institutional knowledge and full-time work to develop it, which cost $$.

Given the amount of malware (sorry - I mean license management) the software comes with its their own fault if a team of one student manages to design their own motherboard or similar. Realistically I just wanted to play with some CAD software.

> provide the licenses to universities,

Not for free usually.

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#34
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gtk's and horizon's OpenGL requirements (3.3 core profile + extensions) likely aren't met by whatever graphics adapter your VM implementation provides.

That seems a little excessive.

It is, but I also understand where the author is coming from. OpenGL 3.2/3.3 with the introduction of the Core Profile is where I remember the OpenGL API getting seriously more ergonomic - no screwing around with GLEW to load extensions for basic functionality, etc.

Similarly, gtkmm is so much cleaner than Qt as a modern C++ library with none of the preprocessor / codegen quirks. Unfortunately it limits the platform reach, because GTK isn't really polished anywhere except Linux.

I raise a toast to the obsession with clean code and clean design. Sometimes "works on my machine" is the counter to "worse is better." At the same time, it's pretty inconvenient for me to use the software. Oh well.

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#35
I've been using Altium for years professionally and would love to see a FOSS project unseat it. My own efforts to advocate staffing a few FTE to work on KiCad didn't get very far.

There are some things about it which drive me nuts and which could easily be done better in an open tool:

- The UI is extremely slow. Clicking on a component often causes the entire app to pause for 1-10 seconds while it loads all of the part parameters and redraws panels.

- It doesn't handle large libraries gracefully. We have something around 30000 parts and the library compiler crashes more often than it succeeds. The Altium sales folks have attempted to get us to switch to vaults but can't explain to us what the data store is, what the concurrency model is, why it's not further lock-in, and why it should be more performant.

- Better geometry importers and exporters. Getting fancy RF geometries in and out is a huge pain. For one thing, Altium's DXF parser renders at a fixed resolution. So if you have some very small feature it will often get turned into a line or a dot. And even if not, it'll be coarse.

- Never do anything in the UI thread that isn't strictly responding to user input.

There are some things it's mediocre and it would be somewhat difficult to implement better in an open tool:

- Really good understanding of mechanical mates. Basically Solidworks-grade constraints for putting things together.

- Tight interconnectedness between schematic and layout rules, and a really powerful and expressive language for writing rules. Altium's rules language is simultaneously constraining and often lacks coverage for obvious cases. As an example, there's no way to do same-net gap analysis. You can make unmanufacturable spaces between two traces of the same net all day long and the design rule checker would never care.

Some stuff Altium pretends to do but doesn't, and it would be fiendishly difficult to do a good job in a FOSS tool:

- Physics modeling. I want to know how much coupling I'll have between nets. I want to see discontinuities in transmission lines. I want to know what will radiate and absorb and how. Basically I want to be able to have my CAD tool also be Ansys HFSS with varying degrees of fidelity.

- Real schematic hierarchy. The schematic compiler is chock full of bugs that it's dangerous to rely on hierarchy and also dangerous not to. I want to draw schematics with the same type of composition and repetition that I use to write software.

Then there's stuff that Altium doesn't even pretend to do and someone totally should write an EDA tool that does.

- Useful diff of schematics and layouts. I want to be better able to tell where I might have made an unintended change.

- Real time collaboration. Google Sheets but schematics and layouts. I want to be able to drop in on my layout artists' work and be able to point things out or share in the burden.

Lately in my office there have been lots of new people coming from places that use Cadence and they're slowly trying to get us to switch over. I haven't figured out what about it is supposed to be superior.

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#37
post #24

The PCB EDA space really needs some competition. Kicad is really getting there, it "just" needs some UI improvements (Automation of the Schematic->Netlist->pcbnew flow would be nice) and also some of the big boy features like signal integrity and heat etc. Altium is probably the only clean PCB experience at the moment, and even that sits at 10% CPU on my machine with an empty schematic and no PCB open. The more esote…

> Automation of the Schematic->Netlist->pcbnew flow would be nice

Recent versions have an "Update PCB from schematic" option which works very well.

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#38
post #23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Differential pair routing Yes, uses KiCad's push&shove router > Pin swapping... ie a differential pair where the pins can be reversed Not really, but swapping P/N in a diffpair is as easy as selecting nets in the schematic and using the "swap nets" tools. > Pin agnostic routing, ie a MCU or FPGA where it doesn't matter which pin is used Not really, but you can draw the connections in the board editor and backannota…

Back-annotation and library management are the two places where KiCad really falls down for me (the user interface is janky but works once you get used to the warts) so this looks really interesting. How tightly integrated are the schematic editor and layout editor? Are they two separate programs like KiCad or can you eg. delete a component from the schematic and have it automatically removed from the PCB (but withou…

You have to click a "Update netlist" Button first otherwise this won't happen. However if you select something in the schematic editor, the selection is highlighted in the board view and vice versa.

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#39
post #25
post #8

Author here, ask me anything.

A few questions - 1. Does the schematic editor support multi-page schematics? Kicad's hierarchical-block approach always feels needlessly clunky to me. 2. Does the PCB editor support planes and copper pours? 3. Does the PCB editor have anything to help estimate a line/diffpair's characteristic impedance?

1. Yes it does, has even a Annotation mode to add sheet increments for part numbers (e.g. R101, R102, etc for the first sheet, R201, R202, etc for the second sheet). Pasting between sheets works, having multiple gatesn (e.g. of a hex inverter) spread out over multiple sheets works as well.

2. yes, including global or per-net rules for thermal relief, spacing etc. It warns you if nets have not been recalculated on Fabrication output. Adding them is simply: draw a polygon, right-click and "Add Plane", there you have to select any names net.

3. there is length tuning built in, but quite frankly I never had to use it, so I don't know if that is what you're looking for

Re: Horizon – a free and open source electronic PCB design package

#40

Downloaded, installed, got repositories, created a test project. Finally open it, new schematic, selected a resistor to put on schema. Damn thing too big, tried to zoom out, failed. Then tried to move it, failed as well. Unintuitive, not in the mood to learn its quirks so I just uninstall it.

Scroll wheel and middle mouse button, as commonly used in most software. Home button reframes the view.
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