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US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

themoneyillusion.com

71–80 of 267 posts

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#71
I think it’s in our interest to have some kind of political Readiness Act that assesses events like this (Pandemic being in the list, along with this). Spending a few billion on it is pennies compared 2 trillion that we thus far have spent, not including the widespread economic cost.

Might be worth jamming into the Green New deal.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#72
post #10

Maybe someone who knows a bunch about this stuff can enlighten me. I was kind of under the impression that a large solar flare would damage _all sorts_ of electronic equipment, by inducing currents wires all over the place. - If we had extra transformers on hand, how would you protect them from also being damaged? - If a solar flare is powerful enough to damage these transformers, would it also have damaged a large p…

>If we had extra transformers on hand, how would you protect them from also being damaged?

Transmission cables are very very big antennas. Don't connect your spare transformer to that big antenna and it is perfectly safe.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you have identified this as the problem. Sure, states haven't coordinated on lockdowns, testing, or mask purchasing. But it's not because they're struggling against the federal government, it's because there's no official policy to coordinate with. Seems to me like our main difficulty deviating from normal is the fact that a 20% decrease in demand kills off 10% of businesses within weeks and ca…

Actually, there are two interstate pacts doing just that, coordinating their covid-19 response because they think the federal government is useless. There's the Western States Pact (CA, OR, WA, NV, CO), and NY just announced an eastern states consortium (NY, NJ, MA, CT, PA, RI, DE). Add to the fact that several states have had to take drastic measures like calling in their national guard to protect their own PPE ship…

I have a hard time seeing what these pacts accomplish.

What's gained by coordinating Covid response in Spokane and Fresno?

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#74
post #49
post #10

Maybe someone who knows a bunch about this stuff can enlighten me. I was kind of under the impression that a large solar flare would damage _all sorts_ of electronic equipment, by inducing currents wires all over the place. - If we had extra transformers on hand, how would you protect them from also being damaged? - If a solar flare is powerful enough to damage these transformers, would it also have damaged a large p…

A bit more self-centered, is there a way to protect consumer devices from something this? I'm primarily thinking external hard drives with pictures/video we wouldn't want to lose. Maybe a faraday-cage-box of some sort we could buy to just store a spare external in?

Optical media is great for this. Too bad everything else about it sucks.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#75
post #34

I feel like 2008 was an era of irresponsibility. Home buyers took out risky loans, banks sold these loans without accepting responsibility for how risky they where, investors purchased these loans without taking the responsibility to even see what kind of Loans where even in these mortgage backed securities. Ratings agencies abdicated this responsibility too. Goldman lied to AIG, and AIG didn't do the research to und…

I would argue that the 10 years after 08' have also lacked responsibility. I think the secondary effects of the covid shutdown are going to highlight some very poor decisions. Mainly rallying the economy, rather than making it more robust. I'm interested in seeing what happens with housing specifically.

thats basically my point, Companies still aren't taking responsibility for anything and are running the companies to keep the share price up so the Exec team can collect on their options in 4 years and move on. Similarly the government seems completely incompetent, and willfully blind to the risks being taken.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#76
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How much should we worry about this?" Risk assessment. Hands up who anticipated SARS-CoVid-2 -> covid-19? ... OK who mitigated it with a fortuitous insurance policy? ... OK who simply happened to have enough cash in the bank by accident? Now look at the grid. Any grid.

Multiple world governments anticipated a novel respiratory virus. Especially post the first SARS. For whatever reason, the US managed to take the idea seriously for decades and then not really be prepared once it actually happened.

Some states like CA were prepared, but the federal government can’t leave these things for states to fend for themselves. At some point somebody somewhere will try to save a few million to make a budget match. Federal government burned 10 times that amount, probably the same day, on military

[1] https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-27/coronavi...

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not assuming anything/anyone specifically but lean towards nation-state, anarchist, terror, etc. A natural disaster such as a flare, earthquake, fire, etc. are a different story. The radiation and electrical magnetic pulse from a solar flare could hamper equipment. However recent studies in the last few years by EPRI, INL, and ORNL actually show that much equipment would survive and equipment that did not would b…

Care to link to any of those studies? I'd love to read them.

Here is EPRI report - https://www.epri.com/#/pages/product/3002014979/?lang=en-US

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#78
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how you have identified this as the problem. Sure, states haven't coordinated on lockdowns, testing, or mask purchasing. But it's not because they're struggling against the federal government, it's because there's no official policy to coordinate with. Seems to me like our main difficulty deviating from normal is the fact that a 20% decrease in demand kills off 10% of businesses within weeks and ca…

> it's not because they're struggling against the federal government Actually, it is: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/495519-maryland-gov... “The National Guard and the State Police are both guarding these tests at an undisclosed location [because] the federal government seems to be interrupting supplies that are being sent elsewhere in the nation, and so I wanted to make sure that we received what we ordere…

Do you think there is even a chance that a prominent Democrat governor in a prominently Democrat state might be exaggerating for the sake of making the other party look bad?

I mean I can't help but think back to the Puerto Rico days when the Democrats were complaining about a complete lack of aid, meanwhile there were warehouses filled with aid and photos of aid already on site.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The coronavirus has made it pretty clear that America is completely unprepared for any sort of major deviation from "normal". This is the nature of the US system of competitive federalism. States only coordinate with the federal government when either (a) it's politically expedient, because the ruling party in the same for both at that time, or (b) the federal government forces this issue, at which time lawsuits en…

It's pretty interesting that most countries in Europe are unitary states while most countries in the Americas are federal states. Maybe due to the centuries of warfare in Europe the states that survived were unitary states that could better handle external threats. Or maybe it's a holdover from a tradition of monarchy that the Americas never had. Interestingly, Germany is also a federal state. Yet we never seem to he…

It can be argued that this it is part of the American political character because our origin story was shaped by the combination of disparate states, as in, we could have easily had colonies that sided with the British.

It got cemented due to Slavery as we basically carved up the country between slaves states and free states, and ultimately fought a civil war to deal with this bifurcation.

It’s been our long history, it defined us.

Edit: Whoops, I did the American thing again and forgot there are other countries in the Americas.

Re: US unprepared for an electrical grid collapse, but it costs only $300M

#80
post #78
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's not because they're struggling against the federal government Actually, it is: https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/495519-maryland-gov... “The National Guard and the State Police are both guarding these tests at an undisclosed location [because] the federal government seems to be interrupting supplies that are being sent elsewhere in the nation, and so I wanted to make sure that we received what we ordere…

Do you think there is even a chance that a prominent Democrat governor in a prominently Democrat state might be exaggerating for the sake of making the other party look bad? I mean I can't help but think back to the Puerto Rico days when the Democrats were complaining about a complete lack of aid, meanwhile there were warehouses filled with aid and photos of aid already on site.

Larry Hogan, Maryland's Republican governor, has taken similar steps.
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