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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#481

Post by Dylan16807 »

nullc wrote: post #324
sl1ck731 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you arguing for prohibition? Or just prohibition outside of a few handful of cities where driving is uncommon?

I wasn't arguing for anything-- it's just an observation. A bar would be a very different and less profitable business if they had the normal spectrum of liability other businesses have when their actions result in predictable harm. Or even if just law enforcement weren't effectively prevented from staking out bars and stopping obviously drunk patrons as soon as they started to drive. Similarly, I also believe they'd…

I don't think better enforcement of drunk driving laws would force bars to change. Why do you believe that?

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#482

Post by asdff »

kyuudou wrote: post #132
every wrote: post #112

I worked bar and restaurant for 25 years. I would never, ever open or own a restaurant voluntarily. The margins are minuscule and require huge up-front costs with micro-managed inventory, labor and quality control to break even. Bars however are a dream. Inventory control is simply tracking portions and comps. Outside of garnishes nothing rots or goes bad. And assuming tips are good, labor is no worry either. We had…

>Bars however are a dream. As long as the location is good and the clientele are don't fight, get unruly or drunk drive. Ideal would be somewhere like NYC that's mostly walkable. Can't just open up a bar at the end of the universe. Unless talking cow being served.

Most cities are developing at least a couple bars clustered together, and they are pretty universally well attended by millenials. Previous generations might feel guilt or shame about spending a night at the bars. Modern parents are much more sensible and hire a sitter and rideshare to a brewery every now and then. Some bars and brewerys have a more substantial meal service as well, and it's not unheard of to bring your kid in tow during dinner hours.

To me, its a business that will only get more profitable as younger generations become much more sensible adults around social drinking. Outside of a pandemic, that is. Even my parents generation seems to be seeing a resurgence in going out to bars now that kids have grown up and moved away. My mom now frequents tequila bars with her friends. It doesn't even matter if it's a cold climate. Throw on the game, buy a few heat lamps, and have a special on pitchers.

Drinking culture is seeing a huge resurgence in the 4 U.S. metros I've lived in the last few years imo, although I don't have any particular data to point to off hand. Given the increasing secularization of american culture, and the acceptance of the fact that you can indeed have a bender with your friends on a weekend and still pass your medical school exams, I see no reason why bars aren't the best bet in

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#483

Post by Dylan16807 »

gladskdks wrote: post #327
RandallBrown wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you couldn't buy 20 cases of pop per day at a big grocery store. There's more than 20 cases of each flavor at my local grocery store and there's lots of other grocery stores nearby that have the same selection. Also, you're right. Costco exists too.

A few reasons: One: the shop often wouldn't let you buy up their whole supply Two: there are likely other restaurants in the area, so that's 20*N boxes a day Three: lots of countries have resale laws that prevent this Four: that's a lot of time to spend every day when you can get a single delivery every week / two weeks instead Five: the delivery often includes the collection of the used bottles (when using glass) an…

> One: the shop often wouldn't let you buy up their whole supply

Any half-sane shop would love the giant piles of money you're spending and negotiate a way to get you a nice big supply with an even easier pickup process than filling a cart.

> Two: there are likely other restaurants in the area, so that's 20N boxes a day

Even better. Imagine a shop saying they don't* want to ramp up to selling ten times as much product out of aisle seven with no extra work beyond staying in stock.

> Three: lots of countries have resale laws that prevent this

If you buy a shelf-stable food, you can't resell it? Why would a law like this ever exist?

> Four: that's a lot of time to spend every day when you can get a single delivery every week / two weeks instead

This is a better reason, but you'd think the huge volume of the sale would get you at least a mild price improvement.

> Five: the delivery often includes the collection of the used bottles (when using glass) and that otherwise can cost a lot

If it costs money to set things out for recycling, the local government is doing a bad job.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#484

Post by moltar »

gambiting wrote: post #244
MattGaiser wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just a buffet?

Buffet for me means one of these restaurants where you pay a fixed price and then eat as much as you like. That's not the kind of restaurant that is common in Central/Eastern Europe(in fact those all-you-can eat restaurants have never caught on here)

The difference in function with the buffet is that buffets are self serve.

But the main difference for me is the quality. Buffets are always underwhelming. The food is basic and barely palatable.

While cafeterias have a pretty solid quality and taste equal to a proper mid range restaurant.

Even in Canada. I’ve had a chance to work at a military base on a contract. There was a cafeteria on the base. The food was amazingly good and dirt cheap. It was like half the cost of a basic McDonald’s meal, twice the size and nutritious.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#485

Post by jjeaff »

virgilp wrote: post #304
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #215

I really dislike the way in which this article has been written - it reads as the typical piece from the "bro culture" that massively ignores the rest of the world. Besides this, which is not the point... 1) most restaurants in US and high-end Europe that survive and thrive do so by having big margins on alcohol. Their margins are not single-digits. (edit: just saw other comments mentioning this). 2) Many restaurateu…

US restaurants ask me to pay their tax and their personnel separately, and are still expensive. I get it that cheap fastfoods operate on slim margins but I have a very hard time believing the decent restaurants do. I read the article hoping to find what the hell costs 50-70 USD + tax + waiter wages (aka “20% tip that you’re a monster if you don’t pay”), found no such thing.

Just because things are itemized on a bill doesn't make the total any higher.

In fact, I would argue that I would much prefer an itemized bill to a black box total. It's much easier to sneak in extra charges if everything is rolled into a single total.

Perhaps what you mean is that you don't like having to keep in mind that all your prices don't include tax and tip, which is so common in the US, that everyone just instinctively knows it. To the point that if you try to include everything into the price, people will consider your prices too high.

It's very difficult to shift public habit.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#486

Post by maxwell »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #414
maxwell wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I crave the experience of working in a restaurant. I did full-stack back-of-house in busy kitchens and it sure beat sitting around pushing buttons all day. I just haven't been able to afford to do it for the past ten years because building web sites pays so much better.

> I crave the experience of working in a restaurant. I did full-stack back-of-house in busy kitchens and it sure beat sitting around pushing buttons all day. I just haven't been able to afford to do it for the past ten years because building web sites pays so much better. Same, I'm an ex-founder in Fintech, I've worked for big multi-national corps, and have a background in Health Sciences. And the satisfaction you ge…

> the satisfaction you get the rare times things are 'good' in Kitchens is perhaps the most satisfying things I've even experienced in my entire Life

Feeding people great food, the right food, is an amazing feeling.

For me shipping solid code for multinationals (transportation and insurance) was rewarding as well, but the effect was less visceral, more diffuse.

I'm an ex-founder too, relocation/mobility-tech (video chat moving estimates). I now work on accessible legaltech and access to justice projects.

> By contrast, I don't know my neighbors, and barely talk to my house mates.

I felt this elsewhere in the U.S. (Chicago, Vegas, Bay Area, NYC) but I'm now blessed to have amazing neighbors, tenets, and family myself here in Maine, and am able to direct most of my time into building socially impactful software with continuous technical learning.

> The taxing part is the high stress, low pay, long hours, and a very precarious Life over all due to the widespread alcohol/drug abuse.

My partner and I met at a restaurant that fostered a community, preserved a way of life. It made a million a year and spent a bit more. No longer in business. We've been iterating on a financial model for something similar for one day but aren't there yet.

> I've...

Definitely cool story. Interested in Mars Desert Research Station from the standpoint of increasing Terrestrial habitability, i.e. remote villages.

Feel free to message on AngelList or Twitter.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#487

Post by virgilp »

jjeaff wrote: post #485
virgilp wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US restaurants ask me to pay their tax and their personnel separately, and are still expensive. I get it that cheap fastfoods operate on slim margins but I have a very hard time believing the decent restaurants do. I read the article hoping to find what the hell costs 50-70 USD + tax + waiter wages (aka “20% tip that you’re a monster if you don’t pay”), found no such thing.

Just because things are itemized on a bill doesn't make the total any higher. In fact, I would argue that I would much prefer an itemized bill to a black box total. It's much easier to sneak in extra charges if everything is rolled into a single total. Perhaps what you mean is that you don't like having to keep in mind that all your prices don't include tax and tip, which is so common in the US, that everyone just in…

You can say that, but there are enough hints that you'd be wrong:

- Tip habits differ a lot; various online debates and movie references show that there are "assholes" that don't tip (or don't tip well enough?). From this pov serving in a restaurant is more akin to playing music in the subway than working a regular job. This is, IMO, not how things should be.

- "if you try to include everything into the price, people will consider your prices too high": this right here tells you that people are not as rational as you paint them to be. Theoretically, the bill is the same whether you include & itemize all things, or not. In practice though, because the bills do not include everything, they can get higher than they otherwise would. Humans are strange and not always rational beasts - that's why prices like "$1999" exist. Because (false) impressions matter. So no, it's not easier to sneak in extra charges by presenting full price on the menu - it's quite the opposite.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#489

Post by Corrado »

Another way to cut costs (at least in the US) would be to decrease the portion size. Honestly, food in the US is too big, sometimes comically so. I think I would be willing to pay the same price for less food; it would help out the restaurants and help my waistline as well.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#490

Post by markus92 »

gridlockd wrote: post #310
mikekchar wrote: post #214

I suspect some of these prices are generously rounded up. I think there is a very good possibility that the author doesn't actually track costs down to that level. They are probably looking at their overall costs and extrapolating downwards to the one item. Possibly a good review of their spending could save them a lot of money. Yes, I realise it is Ottawa and CDN, but I lived in Ottawa for over 10 years and these pr…

Never mind that preparing such a sandwich should take no more than five minutes of labor total. They are clearly not selling enough if 2.50 goes to labor.

Not sure what’s so special about this Döner, but shouldn’t take more than a minute for someone experienced in it. At peak hours, they can surely sell more than 12/person/hour.

So yeah, completely agreeing with you that the labor cost seems a bit inflated.

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