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Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

jatan.blog

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Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#361

Post by ClumsyPilot »

gfxgirl wrote: post #333
bdamm wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not insecure-by-default, that's just you having a (legitimate) issue with the distribution chain. Insecure-by-default is installing software that has known weaknesses. That the process doesn't work for you doesn't mean the software is weak.

Are they sandboxed individually? If not it's insecure by default. I mostly don't mind auto-updates on iOS and maybe Android as they're at least supposed to be each app sandboxed by default. MacOS is getting better at this. Windows sucks at it. Where is snaps on that spectrum?

Are you alluding to possibility of an update containing malicious code? Is that because the update's authenticiry is in question or is that because of original developer went rogue? Leaving the system unupdated is insecure. I do not see how auto-updates make it insecure, but themselves.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#362

Post by bgorman »

abeyer wrote: post #321
bgorman wrote: post #315

Ubuntu is doing more harm than good to desktop linux at this point in time. Continuing to push Xorg over Wayland. Removing support for flatpak (cross-distro way of using sandboxed apps) Horrible PPA system that works much worse in practice than the AUR or other ports systems. No daemonless docker (podman) Lots of people try Ubuntu since it is the "most popular" version of Linux, realize it isn't great and think deskt…

Ubuntu tried shipping wayland on by default already and it was a clusterf* and made that release all but unusable. Wayland isn't ready for an LTS release yet.

Wayland is the default display server for Red Hat Enterprise Linux 8. I have been running Wayland for the last 2 years and have never had any problems. (Admittedly I haven't used Nvidia)

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#363

Post by littlestymaar »

m-p-3 wrote: post #340
neetfreek wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken on the shoddy behaviour, but if you'd like to try it out there's this helpful post on disabling snap[1] shared here[2] when I installed 20.04. Quick and painless! 1. https://www.kevin-custer.com/blog/disabling-snaps-in-ubuntu-... 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22972661 *Edited

At that point I'll just use Debian.

Debian used not to work easily on hardware that require proprietary drivers, did it change recently ?

I left Ubuntu almost ten years ago, after 5 years of using it, when they started using MIR instead of Gnome2 and I replaced it with Linux Mint and I haven't looked back. This whole snap thing looks like the new weird decision made by Canonical to make their faithful users leave :/

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#364

Post by eikenberry »

znpy wrote: post #348
koheripbal wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...dumb question: Does this apply to Ubuntu Server as well??? Because if so, I'm sticking with 18.04.

You might want to consider jumping ship and go into the RHEL/CentOS world. Stability and predictability is their main strenght. Each release is supported for a veeeeery long time.

Stability and predictability of the core OS. But then everyone uses EPEL for everything else which throws that all out the window.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#365

Post by compuguy »

lukeschlather wrote: post #281
Spooky23 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a consumer, sure. In a business setting, it seems irresponsible to be to allow every random server to have an un-inspectable VPN.

It seems irresponsible to inject devices into your network that that indiscriminately MITM all traffic and can easily be configured to log passwords and auth cookies, no matter what setting you're in.

You and I agree. Unfortunately most large corporations, and US Government agencies like to be able to see and inspect network traffic. Mostly to prevent the theft of confidential data. The fact that the MITM proxies hoover up passwords and auth cookies still bothers me quite a bit.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#366

Post by compuguy »

bdamm wrote: post #295
lukeschlather wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems irresponsible to inject devices into your network that that indiscriminately MITM all traffic and can easily be configured to log passwords and auth cookies, no matter what setting you're in.

It's basically the TSA of corporate networks. They need to inspect traffic because they can't control what devices show up in their environments and what malware might ride along side legitimate traffic.

Actually most of these corporations have plenty of controls on their networks preventing the random plugging in of devices into networks. Most of the time they are using something that involves 802.1X.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#367

Post by ClumsyPilot »

alerighi wrote: post #185
ordinaryperson wrote: post #12

Maybe I'm in the minority but I like Snaps. I wish all software would auto-update silently in the background -- when's the last time you even thought about upgrading Chrome? The author of this article claims it's too difficult to find Flatpak apps and that the Ubuntu software center prioritizes Snaps over .deb. Are platforms never allowed to migrate to a new standard? Why is it Canonical's fault that authors of indiv…

The problem with snaps is that they are a stupid way to distribute software that doesn't solve any problem, while introducing many other. Basically a snap package is a container, that means an image of an operating system just to run one software. Just this idea should be considerered stupid, is like saying every software is distributed in a Docker container. It's a great way to waste disk space, and also RAM since s…

Shared dependencies made sence back in the day, when the world was a simpler place and there was less variety.

We have long since arrived at a point where its much more sensible to sandbox every application, with a majority of it's dependencies - less things break, less compatability problens, easier updates, greater reliability. All major operating systems have done this now, Windows, Mac, etc. There is no turning back now.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#368

Post by compuguy »

MPSimmons wrote: post #149
kanox wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MITM should be completely illegal. Why does this even need to be stated?

For some situations, it's called for, but it's a huge pain in the ass. I am in a similar situation, and I need to patch every docker image I use. It's terrible to deal with, as an engineer, but the information security team does catch and eliminate a lot of content-based attacks.

I agree its a pain. It also makes things like working with other private certificate authorities (DoD Cert authority, other private certs) a pain. I spent a decent amount of time trying to get certain work/project related sites whitelisted from our MITM proxy because it didn't recognize the certificate chain...

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#369

Post by stOneskull »

searchableguy wrote: post #129
apexalpha wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if your goal is to bring Linux to the masses?

That boat sailed long ago. Windows has a pretty decent linux subsystem now. Even devs that were hardcore linux enthusiasts moved to windows. The benefit of linux is that it doesn't force stuff on you that you can't disable compared to windows. If you take that away, there are very little reasons for any normal user to move.

I think dual booting is still the way. Gets the best out of linux and eliminates headaches. Boot up times are so fast these days, in and out of the OSs almost as fast as logging in and out.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#370

Post by Nursie »

littlestymaar wrote: post #363
m-p-3 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point I'll just use Debian.

Debian used not to work easily on hardware that require proprietary drivers, did it change recently ? I left Ubuntu almost ten years ago, after 5 years of using it, when they started using MIR instead of Gnome2 and I replaced it with Linux Mint and I haven't looked back. This whole snap thing looks like the new weird decision made by Canonical to make their faithful users leave :/

Nvidia has been easy on debian for quite some time now, are there other proprietary drivers that are important?
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