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Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

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Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#251

Post by jablan »

lifeAsNerd wrote: post #53
securityfreak wrote: post #47

Ubuntu 20.04 forced me to switch to Fedora Server on my home server. Pretty happy so far. I have significantly fresher package versions and most of the software tools I use offer a RPM package. I think I will wait for snap to mature, before giving it another go.

I don't understand. You stopped using Ubuntu server because of snap? Can you clarify?

they didn't say it was ubuntu server, it might just as well be ubuntu desktop, and used as a home server (i.e. a box used mostly for server software, but no necessarily without desktop environment).

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#252

Post by [deleted] »

modzu wrote: post #127
daenz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's finally time to switch to Arch. This is an absolute deal breaker for me as well, as I use an ubuntu system for live visual performances, and I need to ensure that no unexpected auto-updates take place.

if you like Ubuntu and stability go debian. edit: the downvotes are fascinating. if you do LIVE performances and even remotely care about stability Arch is the last distro you should use. its a great distro but its bleeding edge by design. part of the fun of arch. contrarian views should be expressed with words if possible because id like to know what universe some of you are from..

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#253

Post by Barrin92 »

alerighi wrote: post #185
ordinaryperson wrote: post #12

Maybe I'm in the minority but I like Snaps. I wish all software would auto-update silently in the background -- when's the last time you even thought about upgrading Chrome? The author of this article claims it's too difficult to find Flatpak apps and that the Ubuntu software center prioritizes Snaps over .deb. Are platforms never allowed to migrate to a new standard? Why is it Canonical's fault that authors of indiv…

The problem with snaps is that they are a stupid way to distribute software that doesn't solve any problem, while introducing many other. Basically a snap package is a container, that means an image of an operating system just to run one software. Just this idea should be considerered stupid, is like saying every software is distributed in a Docker container. It's a great way to waste disk space, and also RAM since s…

There's flat out wrong stuff in this post. First off snap packages don't waste a lot of disk space because they avoid duplication of shared dependencies by using file hashes. Snap packages that need the same dependencies won't duplicate them.

Secondly, snap works on pretty much all major distributions just like flatpak (for a list go here https://snapcraft.io/docs/installing-snapd).

One big advantage that snap has over flatpak is the "--classic" option to allow non-sandboxed applications given that some applications are hard to ship completely sandboxed without getting into some serious usability issues.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#254

Post by paines »

wegs wrote: post #122
ohazi wrote: post #115

If you're looking for an alternative to Ubuntu but want to stick with a Debian-based distribution, I'll continue to recommend Debian testing. It's a rolling release, so you don't have to stop what you're doing every 6 months - 3 years to install a huge update that changes the way everything works. It's more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices [1]. Software availab…

Is there any stable way to go Ubuntu -> Debian? I don't want testing. Stable is fine. I find each version of Ubuntu worse than the previous. It's change for the sake of change, and as in this case, something really thoughtful like .deb gets replaced with something which appears slapped together poorly. I just want a stable, working system, and Ubuntu seems to no longer be the way to have that.

Set your system up to have like 90% of the available disk space for /home. Rest is root. You can replace your whole system within half an hour.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#255

Post by jablan »

6a74 wrote: post #61

There was a thread on HN about disabling Snaps last week. I found the process pretty straight-forward. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22972661

It's not about whether it can be disabled or not, but about the direction Canonical is heading to. Also, I wouldn't call installing Chromium from .deb in 20.04 exactly straightforward.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#256

Post by No1 »

harrygeez wrote: post #103
greendave wrote: post #18

> Auto-updating of snaps can only be deferred at best, until at some point, like Windows, it auto-updates anyway. Even on metered connections, snaps auto-update anyway after some time. This attitude is obnoxious. Yes, not everybody is on a metered connection or running a mission-critical system, but some are, and it is hardly unreasonable to accommodate them.

This is a hard problem. And Microsoft didn't have a choice. Given an option regular users will never update their computers, perhaps partly due to fear of what they don't understand, fear of change, or maybe due to past bad update experiences. I witness this in my mom with technology all the time. Every time there's a popup she mini-panics, and she has trained herself to click close every time she sees something she…

> especially now that everybody's jumping on the Agile bandwagon, including Windows. There needs to be a way to ensure new versions reach their users given everyone's just churning out barely working software these days.

The fact that everyone is on the agile bandwagon churning out barely working software is the main reason why people do not want new versions of software magically appearing on their computers.

Once you've got a version that actually works for you, allowing an update to come through is like playing russian roulette.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#257

Post by jlgaddis »

ohazi wrote: post #115

If you're looking for an alternative to Ubuntu but want to stick with a Debian-based distribution, I'll continue to recommend Debian testing. It's a rolling release, so you don't have to stop what you're doing every 6 months - 3 years to install a huge update that changes the way everything works. It's more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices [1]. Software availab…

> ... I'll continue to recommend Debian testing.

I run the "unstable" branch, personally -- but I've been using Debian for ~22 years now. It's definitely not for everyone (and not for production!) but a lot of the "power users" here on HN would manage just fine with it.

Just make sure to read the tips linked in the parent and the "Don't Break Debian" [0] page.

---

[0]: https://wiki.debian.org/DontBreakDebian

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#258

Post by SomeoneFromCA »

indigodaddy wrote: post #239
ip26 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The above might come across as flip, but I think it's actually spot on. Why would a mission critical or metered-connection-only machine be running the latest Ubuntu desktop anyway? Match the tool to the job.

It usually wouldn’t even be running Debian. More likely CentOS/RHEL/Suse or a Solaris.

Or even, gasp, *BSD.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#259

Post by flatiron »

commoner wrote: post #137
simion314 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't flatpack designed from the point of Desktop users (GNOME) where snaps are designed with a server in mind? This would mean that are very different and you can't just substitute them.

While there are Snaps for server software, Snaps are marketed as a way to publish applications "for desktop, cloud, and Internet of Things" "across Linux on any distribution or version" - and users expect Snap applications to work properly on all Linux distributions, not just Ubuntu. Otherwise, developers could just publish a .deb package for Ubuntu like they did before. https://snapcraft.io Yes, Flatpak is targeted…

I don’t even know how’s it’s questionable. Every single update we do to prod gets regression tested except for “cross yer fingers” 0-days that we are exposed to.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#260

Post by GordonS »

beckler wrote: post #22

We tried to make an internal IoT device using Ubuntu Core and snaps because the capabilities of it were very promising. We started a PoC and about halfway through we hit a major roadblock. Our enterprise network does certificate substitution, and Ubuntu Core absolutely does not allow you to install your own certificates globally, so our devices would never receive updates. We tried EVERY hack we could think up, short…

A colleague of mine was also looking at Ubuntu Core for an IoT project recently, but Ubuntu wanted $15k/y to run a private, branded Snap store - erm.. no.

If they really want snaps to succeed, there should be an open source snap store protocol, and 3rd parties should be allowed to run their own stores, just like you can add 3rd part apt repos, for example.

We decided on Photon OS, BTW. It's tiny, and perfect for use as a Docker host.

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