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Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

jatan.blog

221–230 of 645 posts

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#221
post #81

I know Snap maybe offered tighter sandboxing, but why didnt AppImage take off? It seems like it solves the problems of deb/rmp/etc war and is easy to create for app devs...

I much prefer AppImage, just recently I created one that packaged an old windows game and included the required dependencies (wine, libopenal, etc). Starting the AppImage is as simple as "./game.AppImage" and in theory would work on any Linux distribution. I think it has good potential for preservation of old applications and video games.

AppImage is awesome.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#222
post #2

Good to see that I am not alone at being upset about the current snap vs. deb vs. flatpak Ubuntu situation. I always considered a unified package management system as a huge plus.

I do not understand that. Why being upset? If you do not like Ubuntu just install some other distro and be done with it. There are many out there! Fedora, Arch (Manjaro) and even plain Debian are all much better then Ubuntu these days.

It is not straightforward to switch distros and maintain your setup. You have to set aside at least a day for it.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#223
post #206
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might defend this if the updates were something like a remote wormable hole, but the updates are more likely to be improvements to drawing avatar icons in Dark Mode or something similarly trivial.

How would you indicate to a package manager that something is a critical bugfix release, rather than a non-critical feature release? Package managers (including snapd) basically just "think" in semver. Semver is one-dimensional: releases are arranged on a big line, and they'll know to auto-update based on e.g. whether a given release is close to your current release on the line. For the cases where we do distinct sec…

> Package managers (including snapd) basically just "think" in semver. Semver is one-dimensional: releases are arranged on a big line, and they'll know to auto-update based on e.g. whether a given release is close to your current release on the line.

This is NOT how semver works, though... each section has, well, semantic meaning. Some updaters might linearize, sure, and many developers run fast and loose with versioning, but semver is a graph of varying major, minor, and patch version numbers which change with their own semantics which can describe more than just newness

Bump major -> y'all best be careful

Bump minor -> something you care about maybe changed, read the changelog

Bump patch -> we'll probably just fix some bugs

patch releases could and should be backportable to other minor releases under the same major release if people care about stability of a module. I think that the "work from master" mentality that npm and GitHub UX has lead people to is one of a handful of reasons that prople misunderstand versioning strings...

I agree that flagging criticality is useful, though. Linux packagers like YUM/DNF have had this for a while, even the ability to feed a CVE identifier or bug id in to the package manager to resolve them

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#224
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting OT, but could you elaborate on your issues with systemd? I’m genuinely curious. I often see people complain but haven’t seen or experienced specifics apart from it being complex and having higher learning curve than initd. (I don’t know if you’ve tried MX Linux BTW; Debian derivative without systemd by default) I will never defend pulseaudio though, that’s a horrible mess.

Systemd gives you less control. I used to pipe stderr to email, cant do that with sustemd. The journaling system is very slow compared to plain text files. Systemd overwrite mounts made by ip netns. Network settings is complicated with systemd. Not all bad though, setting up services is easy, and it has never failed to start a service for me so far, and it do start services in the correct order, which is all it shoul…

Can't you just wrap your service? Something along the lines of

> ExecStart=/bin/sh -c "/usr/bin/foo > /var/foo/bar 2>&1"

As for networking, it's not like you have to buy in to systemd-networkd, systemd-resolved et al - or am I missing something?

What I've definitely had issues with is the way networking services are configured in recent releases of Debian, but that's mostly from several of the network subsystems being in different degrees of weird limbo with "the new way" and "the old" interfering with each other. For example how resolv.conf is managed. And the whole back-and-forth with network names. Come to think of it, it's a bit reminiscent of snap/deb in Ubuntu 20.04 ;)

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#226
post #115

If you're looking for an alternative to Ubuntu but want to stick with a Debian-based distribution, I'll continue to recommend Debian testing. It's a rolling release, so you don't have to stop what you're doing every 6 months - 3 years to install a huge update that changes the way everything works. It's more stable than the name would suggest, as long as you follow a few reasonable best-practices [1]. Software availab…

Can you use xfce as the window manager easily? Basically all I want is an LTE release of something with xfce or some other “plain” window manager.

The default Debian installer asks what desktop environment you want to use. XFCE is one of the options available.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#227
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s beyond obnoxious. It’s your computer and there’s no way to disable it from mutating without file system hacks?

There is. Don’t install Ubuntu. Use Debian.

The above might come across as flip, but I think it's actually spot on. Why would a mission critical or metered-connection-only machine be running the latest Ubuntu desktop anyway? Match the tool to the job.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#228
I've been using kubuntu for a while and while I like it a lot, it seems very "chatty" to me - way too many notifications which I have to disable one at a time. I only discovered the snap situation when Chromium started prompting before it would open files, and I couldn't find a way to disable it. In the end I installed Chrome, but I am looking around for an alternative distro.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#229
So I run Kubuntu on my work laptop (X1 Carbon) and just upgraded to 20.04 last weekend. I had a vague idea there were different competing standards for "linux apps that work across distribution" but didn't know people had such a problem with snap. It just seemed like a useful tool for installing proprietary stuff that wouldn't normally be packaged by the distribution. I just checked and the snaps I have that aren't from canonical are: datagrip, slack, discord, and spotify. I haven't noticed any slow app boot times and I think it's great that it's so easy to install third party software. Is snap somehow user-hostile?

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#230
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MITM should be completely illegal. Why does this even need to be stated?

In your own company you're free to do what you want. I can understand the reason for this. Now that most suppliers treat their devices as 'black boxes' and call home to install updates whenever they want, the security team no longer has visibility nor control over this. So much stuff runs Linux which we don't manage but still has to have full access to our network. And public repositories have been compromised and sp…

> In your own company you're free to do what you want.

No, it's corporate MITM specifically which should be illegal.

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