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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#441

Post by Mikeb85 »

Ntrails wrote: post #394
Mikeb85 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) is the correct answer. Most restaurateurs in Canada (and probably the US) are simply unsophisticated. Most of the restaurants I've worked for and/or run are basically money printing machines (I've been lucky and feel I'm pretty good now) while a few crashed and burned hard (and it was always pretty obvious they would). The example in the article has many, many things wrong with it.

The general rule that I've seen in the handful of UK establishments in which I've chef'd, is that food should be priced by ~tripling the cost of the raw ingredients. It's a pretty inexact science for anywhere small ish with a frequently changing menu - but it doesn't matter. Alcohol also has a big markup, don't get me wrong, but it's not alone. And if you want to know the biggest "free profit" in a restaraunt - it's…

Simply 3x-ing COGS might 'work', but you're leaving a lot of money on the table.

> And if you want to know the biggest "free profit" in a restaraunt - it's postmix soft drinks and tea/coffee.

No, soft drinks lose you money because it's often a replacement for more expensive alcoholic drinks. The typical soft drink here is $3, even a $6 beer will net me more gross profit than the total price of the soft drink. That's why craft sodas, kombuchas, home-made mocktails and the like are de rigueur nowadays...

Tea/coffee is 'free profit' in the sense it's usually an addition at the end of the meal and not everyone will order a digestif.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#443

Post by jlokier »

WalterBright wrote: post #316
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not nearly as much. If at all. This is what killed retail in the UK. Amazon certainly made a difference, but given a choice, some people actually enjoy mall shopping and eating. But between huge hikes in business rates (commercial operating taxes) and rent increases, retail simply isn't as profitable as it was in the 90s. The rent increases are pure greed and predatory extraction. There certainly hasn't been any corr…

> Not nearly as much. If at all. Have you looked over their books? Landlords have to pay: 1. taxes 2. maintenance 3. insurance 4. mortgage costs (they're usually leveraged) 5. legal and lawyer fees for contracts and disputes 6. costs of unrented space 7. accounting costs 8. costs of just keeping track of all the changing laws 9. depreciation In Seattle, landlords are considered an unlimited source of funds for social…

>> [Cost have not risen] nearly as much. If at all.

Your counterargument:

> Have you looked over their books?

> Landlords have to pay:

> 1. taxes 2. maintenance 3. insurance 4. mortgage costs (they're usually leveraged) 5. legal and lawyer fees for contracts and disputes 6. costs of unrented space 7. accounting costs 8. costs of just keeping track of all the changing laws 9. depreciation

I think your argument is "there are lots of costs", which is true and people don't appreciate that a landlord can have a hard time.

But it doesn't work as an argument about how much costs have risen or fallen.

Most of the costs you listed have either stayed the same or gone down in recent years, so it doesn't appear to support your side of that argument.

Mortgage costs in particular have gone down a lot in recent years. Mortgages are great if you can get them, because they are so cheap now.

6 has gone up but that one is cheating. It's like saying landlord's income is lower than the amount it "should" have gone up, which does not work as an argument that landlords actually have to pay out more. If 6 has gone up due to longer voids, those voids (until recently) are usually due to raising the rent, their own decision, so again do not constitute landlords paying out more.

9 is an interesting mixed bag, as depreciation is only relevant as a true outgoing cost if you're going to sell the property someday, in which case you should only be counting the interest component of the mortgage, which has gone down, as well as the change in property price, which has probably gone up by more than depreciation (until recently).

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#444

Post by gambiting »

jlokier wrote: post #435
gambiting wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I introduce you to the video games industry? While there are good paying jobs out there, I'd risk saying the vast majority of people working in games are hugely underpaid. At my first job I was literally told "yeah the pay is crap, but you get to work on big titles so it's fine". And it's not just demand and supply - we're having a very hard time recruiting for senior positions as there just aren't any candidates…

> there just aren't any [senior] candidates around I think that statement is almost certainly false. Offer better pay, conditions and interesting work that has career prospects for the people when they leave, and make it known you are doing this, and I think you will have plenty of interested, good candidates. (Unless you make crappy games infested with 15s gameplay alternating with 30s brain-polluting ads, and that'…

I work for one of the largest developers in the world - the career prospects and attractiveness of work are both not an issue. I'm surrounded by people who have worked here 15, 20, even 25 years, we pretty much never let people go unless they want to leave and try something else, and generally the company tries to bend over to accomodate any wishes towards your dream career path(I personally know several people who changed their speciality within company just because they wanted to, and the company did everything it could to accomodate such changes) - you can also move to any of our 40+ studios across the world if you so desire(there is a process, but no one is going to stop you from transferring if you want to do it). Pretty much everyone here has worked on at least one title that sold 10+ million copies - it's a pretty good place to work all things considered.

No, the main and only problem is pay, and it all stems from the fact that there are hundreds of applicants willing to apply for junior positions, some of which I am certain would literally chop their own leg off for the opportunity to work in video games - if it was legal they would literally agree to work for free. So they all start on some extremely low salary(especially considering that actually, our standard for hiring programmers seems extremely high and I have no doubts that those people could find much better paid jobs elsewhere), but obviously that leads to problems further down the line.

But, just because we have thousands of applicants for junior positions, that doesn't mean we have as many for say Senior roles - those see barely anyone applying, and yes, I'm 100% convinced it's purely because of pay. And the pay is what it is, because HR considers it unacceptable to pay new hires more than what we pay people who have advanced through the ranks naturally(which obviously cannot be a lot, seeing as your starting salary as a junior was so low, even if you somehow through some miracle managed 10% increase every year that's still not a lot by the time you get promoted to senior).

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#445

Post by yung_donair »

Tepix wrote: post #2

Döner for $11? I‘ve ever seen one sell for more than €5 and €3.50 seems to be an average price here.

Food prices in general are pretty high here in Canada, a big mac combo down the street costs $9.69.

Also, as someone who lives ~4 blocks from the restaurant in question (Wolf Down in Ottawa) I can confirm that the Doner is completely unparalleled. You can tell that they use top quality ingredients and all of the portions are super generous.

tl;dr, while $11 may be expensive for a different doner in a different city, its pretty reasonable for Wolf Down in Ottawa.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#446

Post by illumin8 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #265
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #215

I really dislike the way in which this article has been written - it reads as the typical piece from the "bro culture" that massively ignores the rest of the world. Besides this, which is not the point... 1) most restaurants in US and high-end Europe that survive and thrive do so by having big margins on alcohol. Their margins are not single-digits. (edit: just saw other comments mentioning this). 2) Many restaurateu…

2) is the correct answer. Most restaurateurs in Canada (and probably the US) are simply unsophisticated. Most of the restaurants I've worked for and/or run are basically money printing machines (I've been lucky and feel I'm pretty good now) while a few crashed and burned hard (and it was always pretty obvious they would). The example in the article has many, many things wrong with it.

> The example in the article has many, many things wrong with it.

Agreed. The author of the article seems to lack some basic business skills. I realize that if you're making an artisan sandwich at home you might want to use the best possible ingredients (the artisan sourdough she talks about, etc), but you can't expect to build a viable restaurant business where you are spending so much on raw materials.

If I was making myself the ultimate burger I might use wagyu beef that cost over $10 a pound and some artisan cheese, pasture-raised bacon, etc, but I wouldn't try to create a fast casual restaurant and expect to make a profit using those ingredients.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#447

Post by yung_donair »

Tomte wrote: post #322

I hate the jargon where "protein" means "meat". It debases the thing. Why don't you sprinkle some whey powder or something over your Döner? I know that train has left the station, but damn, why would you willingly remove yourself from what the food really is? Do you also drink ethanol instead of wine? Do you smears lipids on your bread instead of butter?

IIRC the three options at this place are Beef, Chicken and Tofu, so calling it meat would just be incorrect.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#448

Post by mgkimsal »

willvarfar wrote: post #320
andybak wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are no longer any normal classic pubs in England! A slight exaggeration, no? Whilst it's uncommon to find a pub that doesn't do food, I can think of several not far from me. (just outside Brighton). And "a pub that does food" is still quite far from being a restaurant. Some only do food on Sundays, some have limited menus run by guest kitchens and some get the food cooked by a nearby takeaway with whom they p…

“Pubs that do food” is the kind of thing I’m talking about! :) It starts with Sunday lunches, and slips into weeknights. It starts with order at the bar, and slips into little “reserved for diners” signs on most of the tables. It starts with the barman working the sandwich toaster and slides into teenagers in white blouses and knee length black skirts with name tags saying “trainee” asking you to wait to be seated as…

I'd think the Rovers Return would count, no? They do the odd hotpot, and they do event catering, but other than that it's pretty much just drinks and darts ;)

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#449

Post by scarface74 »

jlokier wrote: post #439
scarface74 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an entire world of people who are willing to work for less and developing can be done remotely. Even ignoring that. Everything gets commoditized over time. How much does your typical PHP/Wordpress developer make now? Companies like make it easy for someone who doesn’t know anything about programming to make a decent website. There are companies now that make it easy to make a cut and paste iOS app.

PHP/Wordpress developer salaries are low by developer standards, but compare favourably with jobs in general (median income). So PHP/Wordpress developer is still a great job from that point of view.

And even that is being commoditized by sites like Squarespace where you don’t need to know that.

But have you looked at what developers are charging on places like UpWork?

Even the simplest mobile app use to cost a lot. Now you have services like this.

https://buildfire.com/

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#450

Post by bobthepanda »

watt wrote: post #271
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's assuming the zoning allows the space to be subdivided.

Do you live in some kind of dictatorship? In a democracy there are tools how a community makes it allowed.

In reality, democracy can be commandeered by well-organized groups of people that vote as a bloc. At the local level, this means that well-connected homeowner associations wield the power to ban density and commercial activity near where they live.

The oft-cited counterexample to US restrictive zoning, Japan's permissive zoning, works because in Japan zoning type is decided at the national level and there are only 12 types of zoning that define maximum nuisance (so a blacklist). US zoning gets extremely nitty-gritty and is functionally a whitelist.

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