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Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

jatan.blog

161–170 of 645 posts

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#161

> Auto-updating of snaps can only be deferred at best, until at some point, like Windows, it auto-updates anyway. Even on metered connections, snaps auto-update anyway after some time. This attitude is obnoxious. Yes, not everybody is on a metered connection or running a mission-critical system, but some are, and it is hardly unreasonable to accommodate them.

This is a hard problem. And Microsoft didn't have a choice. Given an option regular users will never update their computers, perhaps partly due to fear of what they don't understand, fear of change, or maybe due to past bad update experiences. I witness this in my mom with technology all the time. Every time there's a popup she mini-panics, and she has trained herself to click close every time she sees something she…

>Given an option regular users will never update their computers, perhaps partly due to fear of what they don't understand, fear of change, or maybe due to past bad update experiences.

You make it sound like an irrational fear but there's a real cost/benefit ratio to consider when you upgrade a machine. I personally always try to keep my machines up to date but stuff does break from time to time. Like last week an arch upgrade updated some system library to a new major version which forced me to regenerate my python dev env for work (which is not a trivial task because for various reasons our environment is fairly custom).

Windows is even worse in that regards because its upgrades are often significantly more intrusive (and they use automatic update to push new features and products, which is a great way to have people attempt not to update just to avoid them).

IMO if OS vendors want their users to update at all costs they shouldn't force it onto them, instead they should develop better transactional update systems that effortlessly and reliably let you revert to a previous version if something goes wrong. Then there would effectively be no reason to fear any update, since you know that at any point if something goes wrong you can just click on "undo update" and you're good to go.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#162
post #27

Not sure what was the thinking. I am, as of this moment, in the process of migrating my laptop to from Ubuntu to Debian.

It is worth noting you can basically get all of the benefit of using ubuntu(a good gnome experience, ppa's, etc) but without any of the snap stuff by installing pop os. It's a bit unfortunate that pop os is branded as something basically for scrubs and new linux users, because it is still fully featured and a great overall experience even for a more adept linux user.

I don't know Pop OS. On the other hand, I have been using Debian on my PC since 1999 and only got Ubuntu for my laptop because I had trouble getting everything to work properly and Ubuntu seemed to do the job.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a hard problem. And Microsoft didn't have a choice. Given an option regular users will never update their computers, perhaps partly due to fear of what they don't understand, fear of change, or maybe due to past bad update experiences. I witness this in my mom with technology all the time. Every time there's a popup she mini-panics, and she has trained herself to click close every time she sees something she…

> Given an option regular users will never update their computers This does not reflect the hundreds of regular users that I have serviced over the years. Perhaps fewer than five would postpone updates beyond a few days for convenience / uncertainty, the rest would always install Windows updates within a day or two of being prompted.

My problem on Windows has never been auto update. It is the forced reboot. One that Microsoft refuses to fix because "muh backward compatibility" and instead forces reboots.

Part of the solution should be that Microsoft Windows should refuse to install on any mechanical hard disk or eMMC and on any SSD slower than a certain benchmark. The other option would be to minimize the obnoxious amounts of reading and writing Windows does to disk but that would make sense.

Personally, I don't mind snaps that auto update. Apparently, "modern" snaps are sandboxed but "classic" snaps are not? I think this is the biggest failure of snap. What is a snap? Why couldn't we give legacy snap and real snap two different names? It isn't like there used to be snaps and then we got modern snaps. They both started existing at the same time.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#165
post #46
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a solid decision from Canonical tbh. Certificate substitution is terrible.

MITM should be completely illegal. Why does this even need to be stated?

In your own company you're free to do what you want.

I can understand the reason for this. Now that most suppliers treat their devices as 'black boxes' and call home to install updates whenever they want, the security team no longer has visibility nor control over this. So much stuff runs Linux which we don't manage but still has to have full access to our network.

And public repositories have been compromised and spread malware in the past. So yeah I totally understand this, even though as an enterprise Admin it's a total PITA to manage the root CAs.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's almost as bad as the calculator in Window 10. It's completely ridiculous for ANY calculator app to take that long to load on a modern PC.

What’s wrong with the windows one? It’s instant and it calculates things?!?

IIRC it tries to connect to the internet in the background to download currency exchange rates

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#168
post #98

> Auto-updating of snaps can only be deferred at best, until at some point, like Windows, it auto-updates anyway. Even on metered connections, snaps auto-update anyway after some time. This attitude is obnoxious. Yes, not everybody is on a metered connection or running a mission-critical system, but some are, and it is hardly unreasonable to accommodate them.

I guess it's finally time to switch to Arch. This is an absolute deal breaker for me as well, as I use an ubuntu system for live visual performances, and I need to ensure that no unexpected auto-updates take place.

Just remember that Arch is a rolling release distribution so the updates you do get will be bleeding edge. I recommend setting up Timeshift and always backing up your system before updating; if you’re using BTRFS it’s instant (although ext4 is practically instant on modern NVMe drives).

Also consider Manjaro if you want an Arch-based distro but don’t want to go through the trouble of manually setting everything up on first install. I’ve been running the KDE edition as my main OS and it’s fantastic!

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's almost as bad as the calculator in Window 10. It's completely ridiculous for ANY calculator app to take that long to load on a modern PC.

What’s wrong with the windows one? It’s instant and it calculates things?!?

It takes a couple seconds to start the first time you launch it. Very much not instant.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#170

For largely this reason, I've just switched to Manjaro after over two decades (ouch!) of using Debian and Ubuntu. I'm very happy with it! Package installs are unbelievably fast. But mostly, the AUR repository of user contributed packaging scripts is awesome! Although I'm a bit worried about installing packages from random internet people, they are generally short and very easy to check for unwanted *ware. Haven't bee…

Came here to say this. I've been on Manjaro at work and at home for 2 years now. It's the longest running Linux desktop distro I've ever maintained and it's precisely due to the excellent AUR repo system.

I've had to install very few things from source, mostly small, opinionated system tweak utilities. But even installing from source is easier than hunting down a PPA and a key and trying to keep apt from getting corrupted somehow.

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