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Sleep is more important than food

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Re: Sleep is more important than food

#21

Post by Alex3917 »

kscaldef wrote: post #14
winestock wrote: post #3

Schools such as Caltech and MIT have rigorous curricula that proverbially requires constant study every day of the week just to stay in the middle of the pack. Naturally, most students cut back on sleep. Proponents of this approach are aware of this, even boast about it, saying that this is the best way to learn the material. On the other hand, numerous studies -- including the link at the top of this page -- conclud…

No, those schools have cultures that promote such behavior. I was a grad student and TA at Caltech and observed that the undergrads had horrible time management skills. Procrastination and heroic effort at the last minute were the norm. (I'm not specifically picking on Caltech undergrads, BTW. I'm fairly sure this is typical at most schools.)

"Procrastination and heroic effort at the last minute were the norm."

This may be true, but there are also plenty of students who work from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to bed and still don't have enough time to get all of their assignments done. The problem is that functionally there isn't really any difference between having a 3.5 GPA and a 2.0 GPA, so at some point most people figure out that what they're being asked to do is impossible so they might as well just do their own thing.

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#22

Post by goombastic »

giu wrote: post #10

A tool I've been using for the past days: http://sleepyti.me/ I'm currently testing it. The last two days I went to bed at a time which the tool suggested; getting up wasn't much of an issue, and I felt some improvements, but it's definitely too early to say that it works for me.

Nice!! :)

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#23

Post by cj »

kscaldef wrote: post #14
winestock wrote: post #3

Schools such as Caltech and MIT have rigorous curricula that proverbially requires constant study every day of the week just to stay in the middle of the pack. Naturally, most students cut back on sleep. Proponents of this approach are aware of this, even boast about it, saying that this is the best way to learn the material. On the other hand, numerous studies -- including the link at the top of this page -- conclud…

No, those schools have cultures that promote such behavior. I was a grad student and TA at Caltech and observed that the undergrads had horrible time management skills. Procrastination and heroic effort at the last minute were the norm. (I'm not specifically picking on Caltech undergrads, BTW. I'm fairly sure this is typical at most schools.)

If you want to have a life outside of school (job, side projects, social life) it's very hard to stay ahead of work without losing sleep even with excellent time management.

Certain classes are worse than others and it doesn't usually depend on the content of the course, but the people teaching it. I'd blame the culture of the faculty above the school, although the school likely influences said culture.

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#24

Post by ylem »

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm someone who sleeps on average 6 hours/night. When I have experiments, then I sometimes drop down to 4 hrs/night. I've found that I can manage with 4 hrs/night for about a week (it has gotten a bit harder with age)--BUT I know that I'm not as effective or creative when dealing with such little amounts of sleep. I also know that I'm more prone to make errors and try to develop habits so that I do the "right thing (TM)" when I'm too tired to think (it's like martial arts where you train reflexes...). I also try to know when to throw in the towel and just go home because if I stay I'm likely enough to make a mistake that will cost me more time in the end, or I need sleep so that I can think about something.

However, in normal running mode, 6 hrs (as long as I'm getting exercise) feels normal to me and it's what I sleep even without an alarm unless I'm recovering from severe sleep deprivation (I don't drink coffee and generally just drink tea when I really need to stay awake...). What are other people's experiences? Somehow the dark room scenario in the article seems unrealistic. I do agree that for creative work that more sleep (in my case 6 hr/night) seems necessary--but if I find myself sleeping longer (like say 9 hrs), then I just end up feeling more tired...

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#25

Post by _delirium »

brd wrote: post #2

"Sleep is important" has been a recurring theme for the last couple of years but I am one of the few that don't buy into it at all. Maybe I fall into the 2.5% but if I sleep 8+ hours I feel overslept and groggy. I function moderately to exceptionally well on 6 hours of sleep and often times end up getting more like 3-5 hours of sleep. I've read articles about high functioning executives that barely sleep at all and s…

> I've ... seen studies about less sleep improving lifespan

The surveys I can find associate "normal" amounts of sleep with better lifespan, and both abnormally high and abnormally low levels of sleep (9 or 10 hours, depending on the study) with various negative outcomes. E.g. this meta-analysis pools prospective studies looking at heart attack and stroke rates: http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/02/03...

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#26

Post by dean »

nopassrecover wrote: post #4
brd wrote: post #2

"Sleep is important" has been a recurring theme for the last couple of years but I am one of the few that don't buy into it at all. Maybe I fall into the 2.5% but if I sleep 8+ hours I feel overslept and groggy. I function moderately to exceptionally well on 6 hours of sleep and often times end up getting more like 3-5 hours of sleep. I've read articles about high functioning executives that barely sleep at all and s…

I agree for the most part. However, try going for a regular run (say 5km) once per week, same day, and track your times. Let's say you hit about 30 minutes first time, and get it down to around 20 mins over a couple of weeks. Now try greater sleep deprivation than normal one week and watch your time plummet.

I find the same sort of result with coding on little sleep. While it feels like I'm "high functioning" while coding at 4:00AM, a code review in the light of day after a good night's sleep often reveals that I wasn't.

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#28

Post by michaeldhopkins »

haploid wrote: post #20
nopassrecover wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it affects peak physical performance, it seems reasonable to suspect it affects peak mental performance (as studies seem to suggest). High functioning executives might get by on little sleep, but would they perform better on more sleep? Are hours clocked more important than output at the executive level?

No, it doesn't seem reasonable at all. Athletic activity causes actual physical microdamage that takes rest time, nutrition, and hormones to repair. The elevated secretion of human growth hormone during REM sleep is a significant reason why athletes perform better on more sleep. No such analogue exists for the human brain. Mental activities, at worst, deplete neurotransmitter levels. I have seen no evidence to sugges…

For mental work, sleep is not replenishment, it's prep work. Your brain is thinking problems while you sleep.

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#29

Post by kvdr »

adamzap wrote: post #19
giu wrote: post #10

A tool I've been using for the past days: http://sleepyti.me/ I'm currently testing it. The last two days I went to bed at a time which the tool suggested; getting up wasn't much of an issue, and I felt some improvements, but it's definitely too early to say that it works for me.

sleep_times = [wake_time - 1.5 * x for x in range(3, 7)][::-1] Is that really all that's happening here?

Yep. Basically one sleep cycle is 90mins. So it just gives you 3-4 times based on minimum 2 cycles. Nothing fancy.

Re: Sleep is more important than food

#30

Post by crystalis »

winestock wrote: post #3

Schools such as Caltech and MIT have rigorous curricula that proverbially requires constant study every day of the week just to stay in the middle of the pack. Naturally, most students cut back on sleep. Proponents of this approach are aware of this, even boast about it, saying that this is the best way to learn the material. On the other hand, numerous studies -- including the link at the top of this page -- conclud…

They might be drowning pigs to find the swimmers.
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