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Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

jatan.blog

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Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#91
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a very faithful Ubuntu user for 12 years now but if there's no easy way to disable this abomination then my current one (18.04) will be the last. Whose idea was it to replicate one of the worst features of Windows?

18.04 is supported for three more years. Maybe that will be my Ubuntu countdown.

18.04 has a ten year extended security maintenance life AFAIK, so you could stretch to 2028.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#93

> Auto-updating of snaps can only be deferred at best, until at some point, like Windows, it auto-updates anyway. Even on metered connections, snaps auto-update anyway after some time. This attitude is obnoxious. Yes, not everybody is on a metered connection or running a mission-critical system, but some are, and it is hardly unreasonable to accommodate them.

To be fair, Snappy isn't aimed at "mission critical systems", nor even at bandwidth constrained users. It's a straightforward, reasonably robust and obviously used mechanism for pushing routine consumer software. In that realm, the aggregate benefit to society of having everyone running current software outweighs the annoyance of the specialists, sorry. It's always been this way.

If you are running "mission critical" software, you need to be using a packaging mechanism (c.f. Docker) which lives at a lower level and provides harder guarantees about what you're running. Those solutions exist, they just aren't Snappy.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#94
post #2

Good to see that I am not alone at being upset about the current snap vs. deb vs. flatpak Ubuntu situation. I always considered a unified package management system as a huge plus.

I do not understand that. Why being upset? If you do not like Ubuntu just install some other distro and be done with it. There are many out there! Fedora, Arch (Manjaro) and even plain Debian are all much better then Ubuntu these days.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#95
post #74

> Auto-updating of snaps can only be deferred at best, until at some point, like Windows, it auto-updates anyway. Even on metered connections, snaps auto-update anyway after some time. This attitude is obnoxious. Yes, not everybody is on a metered connection or running a mission-critical system, but some are, and it is hardly unreasonable to accommodate them.

With that Ubuntu has become useless trash joining the ranks of Android and its impossible to disable constant Play Store updates funneling endless unknown changes onto a machine you supposedly own.

Please check the HN guidelines about "shallow dismissal".

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#96
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a solid decision from Canonical tbh. Certificate substitution is terrible.

For a consumer, sure. In a business setting, it seems irresponsible to be to allow every random server to have an un-inspectable VPN.

Yep I couldn't imagine our Fortune 500 company ever allowing access without it.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#97
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently, snaps are compressed to save disk space, which is why they take so long to start: - https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/9scoif/snap_package... Saving disk space is certainly useful for rarely used apps, however, your web browser (and any other frequencely used apps), shouldn't be compressed, especially if there is ample disk space.

Apple has silently compressed files (including executables) since Snow Leopard [1] -- to increase speed. Did Ubuntu pick the wrong compression algorithm? [1]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2009/08/mac-os-x-10-6/3/

I see two mentions of "increased speed" in that article:

1. Increased installation speed. This one's obvious; less data takes less time to install. This is mentioned in your parent comment.

2. "But compression isn't just about saving disk space. It's also a classic example of trading CPU cycles for decreased I/O latency and bandwidth. Over the past few decades, CPU performance has gotten better (and computing resources more plentiful—more on that later) at a much faster rate than disk performance has increased. Modern hard disk seek times and rotational delays are still measured in milliseconds. In one millisecond, a 2 GHz CPU goes through two million cycles. And then, of course, there's still the actual data transfer time to consider. [...] Given the almost comical glut of CPU resources on a modern multi-core Mac under normal use, the total time needed to transfer a compressed payload from the disk and use the CPU to decompress its contents into memory will still usually be far less than the time it'd take to transfer the data in uncompressed form."

It's an interesting point, but seek times and rotational delays don't apply to SSDs. This is kind of an uneasy comparison to draw with "I hate that Chromium’s snap takes more than 10 seconds to load on cold boot on a freaking SSD".

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#98

> Auto-updating of snaps can only be deferred at best, until at some point, like Windows, it auto-updates anyway. Even on metered connections, snaps auto-update anyway after some time. This attitude is obnoxious. Yes, not everybody is on a metered connection or running a mission-critical system, but some are, and it is hardly unreasonable to accommodate them.

I guess it's finally time to switch to Arch. This is an absolute deal breaker for me as well, as I use an ubuntu system for live visual performances, and I need to ensure that no unexpected auto-updates take place.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#99
post #37

Maybe I'm in the minority but I like Snaps. I wish all software would auto-update silently in the background -- when's the last time you even thought about upgrading Chrome? The author of this article claims it's too difficult to find Flatpak apps and that the Ubuntu software center prioritizes Snaps over .deb. Are platforms never allowed to migrate to a new standard? Why is it Canonical's fault that authors of indiv…

> I wish all software would auto-update silently in the background -- when's the last time you even thought about upgrading Chrome? Updating everything has always been one click in Ubuntu (and I'm sure there's an option to have it go automatically). > The author of this article claims it's too difficult to find Flatpak apps and that the Ubuntu software center prioritizes Snaps over .deb. Are platforms never allowed t…

The promise is that providers can build one package for all Linux distros, Afaik. Less work for packagers. More packages for obscure distros.

Re: Ubuntu 20.04 LTS’ snap obsession has snapped me off of it

#100
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been a very faithful Ubuntu user for 12 years now but if there's no easy way to disable this abomination then my current one (18.04) will be the last. Whose idea was it to replicate one of the worst features of Windows?

Gnome has been replicating the worst parts of windows (the registry comes instantly to mind) since the release of Gnome 3.

A centralized location for GNOME config has always been present since GNOME 2 (maybe earlier, but 2 was when I started with GNOME). See, for example, this page https://www.linuxtopia.org/online_books/linux_desktop_guides...
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