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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#421

Post by irrational »

mrpopo wrote: post #202
irrational wrote: post #191

>The craziest thing to me in all this is, I love food. Like, obsessed. Who’s with me? My point is: if eating is literally one of our favourite things ever, are we willing to pay adequately for it? Do we value it sufficiently? Honestly, seems to me like, if there’s one industry that should be profitable, it’s restaurants. One, we have to eat. Two, we love to eat! I'm wondering if there is some personality differences…

As it's something you have to do, why not at least try to make it enjoyable? I don't get it.

If both a pb&j sandwich (one of my main go-tos) and a restaurant meal are equally acceptable to me, why would I want to spend the time and money getting the restaurant meal. I can make and eat the sandwich in less than 5 minutes and get back to those things in life I find enjoyable.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#422

Post by barrkel »

walterbell wrote: post #187
alexashka wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want small restaurants as much as I want shoe makers instead of automated Nike factories. The way forward is not by enabling people who can serve 500 people/day to exist when we can have a robot serving 5,000. We want automation, we want people doing what they choose to do because we've automated away things they had to do, such as work for a living. The way to get there is more automation. Restaurant cooks/servers…

Great restaurants are like art, in the eyes of patrons and creators. They will continue to find each other among the robotic masses.

Art, yes - theatre especially, but also visual, along with the obvious of taste and smell.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#423

Post by barrkel »

watwut wrote: post #206
alexashka wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want small restaurants as much as I want shoe makers instead of automated Nike factories. The way forward is not by enabling people who can serve 500 people/day to exist when we can have a robot serving 5,000. We want automation, we want people doing what they choose to do because we've automated away things they had to do, such as work for a living. The way to get there is more automation. Restaurant cooks/servers…

The robot restaurant is something completely different then restaurant for date or familly dinner. The robot restaurant is for lunch during work - you care about price and speed and nutrition. That is it. Self service checkout is fine. SittIng close to other people does not matter. For date, meetups with friends, celebration or filly dinner I want calmer, more intimate place.

Lunch during work is a great chance to add some joy to the middle of your day. You spend so much time at work, why not leaven it with something delightful?

(I understand the expense arguments, but I think it's a false economy, without specific goals, and isn't worth much regard on software engineering salaries.)

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#424

Post by JoeAltmaier »

watwut wrote: post #206
alexashka wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want small restaurants as much as I want shoe makers instead of automated Nike factories. The way forward is not by enabling people who can serve 500 people/day to exist when we can have a robot serving 5,000. We want automation, we want people doing what they choose to do because we've automated away things they had to do, such as work for a living. The way to get there is more automation. Restaurant cooks/servers…

The robot restaurant is something completely different then restaurant for date or familly dinner. The robot restaurant is for lunch during work - you care about price and speed and nutrition. That is it. Self service checkout is fine. SittIng close to other people does not matter. For date, meetups with friends, celebration or filly dinner I want calmer, more intimate place.

Wow that sounds like 10's of thousands of opportunities to meet, network, whatever, squandered. I always choose a quiet conversational place for lunch, and always with somebody. If not somebody on my project right now, then a contact I haven't visited with in a while.

There is powerful stuff in sharing lunch. Especially if you pay.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#425

Post by curryst »

veggieburglar wrote: post #405
zhoujianfu wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's saying the passion factor will increase the supply. I think the same thing happens some with programming, it's just a lot fewer people have the passion (and ability?) than for cooking food. The same thing happens with teachers, nurses, firemen, police... I think the reason they generally don't make more money is many people have a passion for doing those jobs (ask ten kids what they want to be when they…

They aren’t super difficult? Teachers, nurses, firemen, and police officers would like to have a word with you. Programming may be mathematically complex and difficult to learn, but it does not corner the market on difficulty. Try adapting a teaching curriculum for online learning for fourth graders, working 16 shifts in an ICU during a pandemic while trying to keep people safe, planning and organizing a response to…

The devil is in how well you do your job. Handling those things well is difficult; handling them well enough the government won't fire you (for which the bar seems to be fairly low) is not.

We've been flooded with reports of how we are not adapting to the change to online learning well.

Working in the ICU during a pandemic is not a complex task; the procedures for doing so are fairly simple steps posted on charts everywhere. There are degrees of complexity to being a nurse depending on the level of certification you have. Physician's assistants have abilities fairly close to a doctor.

Planning and organizing responses to state wildfires is far outside the scope of a firefighter. There are a very small number of people that plan and organize, and a large number of people who implement.

I do not think de-escalating is well-embraced form of policing in the US. If it is, we are doing a terrible job. Police in the US kill drastically more people than other countries. It's not uncommon for European countries to go a full year without police killing a single citizen. There are, of course, more complexities to it than that, but it would be hard to reconcile a doctrine of de-escalation with the absurd number of police shootings we have.

Doing those things well is hard. The fact of the matter is that there is a distinct lack of expectation that those things will be executed well. No one is going to be punished for online schooling failing, botched responses to wildfires, or for shooting a homeless person. In the face of that, they're certainly not herculean feats of strength.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#426

Post by mtrower »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #117
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, who's going to pay $15 or $20 for a sandwich? Most people will pass.

Why will they pass? What's the calculus? "I could make it myself for less" ? "It used to be less" ? "It shouldn't cost that much " ? Isn't it more likely to be true that they will pass because they've become accustomed to crazy low prizes for prepared foods?

The calculus is, what percentage of Americans can afford $15-$20 per sandwich on a regular basis? And how does that revenue compare to current revenues?

edit: Though, this throwing around of prices is perhaps not very effective. Reasonable prices for sandwiches in SFC, NYC, or Seattle will be much higher than a midwest capital, which will still be higher than some rural diner. The point stands, however, that there's a breaking point which has nothing to do with principles or indignation and everything to do with household economics.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#427

Post by mtrower »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #63
talentedcoin wrote: post #18

People love food, but eating out at restaurants to the extent that happens in the modern world is a historical aberration. It’s not just other restos you’re competing with but a home-cooked meal too. I get the sense from the tone taken here that this owner is going to be in trouble down the line. It’s good to be passionate but their objectivity is clouded. The restaurant with the really expensive donair is indeed lik…

That's a good point. On a more philosophical level, are restaurants an essential good for society, or more of a luxury along the lines of upscale purses, limited-run sneakers, Rolex watches and Teslas? I'm not going to argue that they shouldn't exist, but just like with fine mechanical watches, I don't imagine society will collapse without them as we switch to centralized food preparation with economies of scale and…

I would consider some amount of restaurants (of one variety or another) to be of some cultural importance. They don't need to be as prevalent as today, perhaps. But it would be a very different place to be without them entirely, and I think it would feel... a bit colder; more barren.

Luxury? To some degree, perhaps. Hardly to the same degree as Rolex watches, however.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#428

Post by JSavageOne »

I've noticed that in Asia food prices are relatively low and there is an abundance of options. There are many mom & pop places, whereas in the U.S. it feels like mostly big chains.

In South Korea and Japan, it's common to order and pay for your machine using a kiosk. When your food is ready, you pick it up yourself, and when you're done, you drop off your tray in the designated location. I'd imagine this saves on a great deal of labor costs.

Other than that, perhaps the rent is too damn high in the U.S. My experience watching countless restaurants and commercial properties become vacant storefronts and bank retail branches in Manhattan at least would suggest that.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#429

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

chii wrote: post #151
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why will they pass? What's the calculus? "I could make it myself for less" ? "It used to be less" ? "It shouldn't cost that much " ? Isn't it more likely to be true that they will pass because they've become accustomed to crazy low prizes for prepared foods?

why should consumer over pay for anything? If another restaurant can make a profit by increasing efficiency and keep prices low, they win over one that doesn't. And restaurants have no real business moat - recipes for most things are known, and it's mighty hard to invent something totally new. Let's imagine that all restaurants raise their prices like the article claims. Suddenly, the margins at 19%. Let's also assum…

The main way businesses that use labor reduce cost and/or increase profit is to reduce the cost of labor. Efficiency wins are generally small compared to labor costs.

So the reality is that, as the article noted, restaurants have been in a battle for a decade or two focused on cost reduction, which means mostly labor cost reduction.

In short: the cost of eating out is relatively low because we pay most of the people involved as little as possible. That might be good for our eating out, but it's far from clear that it's good for the rest of our lives.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#430

Post by mtrower »

2019-nCoV wrote: post #130
fouc wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm really talking about a sole proprietorship/self-employed sort of restaurant. The owner is also the cook. (that level of scale) Would be nice if there were more smaller businesses. And less barriers to entry.

The food truck would be the closest NA incarnation of that.

They exist as described (family owned/operated restaurants; owner is the cook; relatively small building with small dining area). I personally know a family which owns/operates one in my hometown, and also know of a few here in Wisconsin's capital. They don't seem to be too hard to find if you look.

It's probably location dependent, so I don't know about major urban centers like SFC. But it's definitely not fair to say that NA doesn't have these; there's a lot to NA outside of major urban centers.

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