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Valve drops VR support for macOS

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Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#191

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You could build a hackintosh instead. Pain to get software set up just right but when it is it works great.

It's too time consuming and risky for a company.

If it’s too risky I’d assume the company would have enough money to not have to resort to building hackintoshes

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#192

Everyone's talking about the slower hardware. IMO the biggest hurdle to gaming is Mac OS's baked in mouse acceleration and whatever else makes 100% of mice feel absolutely terrible on a Mac. Even the magic mouse feels janky. I followed a bunch of online guides to do everything I can to disable the acceleration and everything else, but for some reason when I try to play a game it still feels terrible. Even when the ga…

Weird, I use a gaming mouse on macOS and never noticed any problem or jankiness, running at 1000 Hz polling rate. Sure, the acceleration curve is different that Windows' and I only game on Boot Camp, but it's never felt "wrong" to me for day to day usage.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#193
post #62
post #50

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Sorry, since when is a few hundred dollars “extremely expensive”?

Compared to IBM computers, they are overpriced. Of course, if you want to test your software on Macs, you'll have to buy their hardware sooner or later, but even then you have to set up the build on the system instead of keeping it as pure test system. If you do it for your day job, it's probably justified, but if you are just a hobbyist, then even hundreds of dollars are expensive. Especially if you live in a poorer…

The insult is that the mac you "you have to buy" is just the same Intel CPU, AMD GPU, Micron RAM and Samsung SSD you already own which can build and virtualise the 10+ other platforms.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't played Beat Saber, but I remember Avatar. As beautiful as it was, it remained unique. All new films for the past decade have been released as 3D, but I cannot think of a single one other than Avatar that I would prefer watching in 3D over 2D. Is there reason to believe Beat Saber would not become VR's Avatar?

You're comparing a fixed medium, movies, with a dynamic medium, games. I'm not sure VR will be a long term success, but it will have no relation to 3D TVs failure.

What is fascinating that both of these technologies require glasses - something burdensome and often uncomfortable.

I often said ‘when 3D TV’s don’t require glasses, I’ll buy one.’ I guess that was the general opinion, and when that didn’t happen quickly enough, it died.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#195
post #29

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Yeah but have you played beat saber? I'm dead serious though the experience you get in a good immersive VR rig is completely unrivaled. Well worth the hassle and overhead. This will get better as costs come down and developers continue to innovate.

I have tried Beat Saber. I rented an Oculus Quest for a couple of weeks over Christmas. Several things, Beat Saber included, were really impressive at first, but the thrill quickly wore off. The kids quickly went back to playing their PS4 and Switch games, and never even mentioned the Quest after it was gone. My basic take is that the technology is really impressive; I agree with proponents that the Quest finally nai…

> but the thrill quickly wore off. The kids quickly went back to playing their PS4 and Switch games, and never even mentioned the Quest after it was gone.

Same experience (Vive Pro) with niece, nephew and their friends. They tried Beat Saber and all other age-appropriate VR games. After those few times, not once did they ask to try again. They would much rather play Fortnite and The Sims, with a mouse and keyboard.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#196
post #122

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Apple actually has a gaming platform called Apple Arcade and gaming is a separate and prominent category in the App Store. They do "game of the day" and editorials all the time, there's a platform called Game Center that can be used as an account between devices and a place to keep scores. Their graphics performance on iPhones has been top of the line for many years now, they always boost about the graphics performan…

While Apple Arcade was a nice idea, its clear now that is has been out a while they they are still not taking gaming seriously. New game releases are slow and the games are very shallow. There are very few games in the Arcade that you would play for more than a day or two.

Do you not suspect that the marketplace for "shallow" games is a lot bigger and more valuable than whatever section of the market you think they're missing?

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#197
post #85
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but have you played beat saber? I'm dead serious though the experience you get in a good immersive VR rig is completely unrivaled. Well worth the hassle and overhead. This will get better as costs come down and developers continue to innovate.

I will proselytize Beat Saber until the day I die. I have played hundreds of hours of video games in 2020, which reflects the time spent since I was 8 playing Donkey Kong on the Super Nintendo. After writing this, I'm probably going to jump into some FF7R. In the morning, I'm going to log into Animal Crossing and do some chores around the island. Beat Saber is the most fun game I have ever played. No qualifiers. No s…

Games that do a good job of keeping the arcade format are a lot more immersive. Fact is, VR today can only put you in a single room. So the entire game needs to be build around that constraint to maintain immersion.

Space Pirate Trainer is another game that did a really good job of this. Before Beat Saber, that was easily my favorite, though wow Beat Saber is _so good_. Blarp is another game that did a great job of immersing you into a single room and making the most of the mechanics.

More "full" games don't work as well, because they have to figure out some way to transport you around the world without breaking immersion or causing nausea. And I don't think anyone has pulled it off well.

I am confident we will have more games that stand up to Beat Saber. It's a platform that requires discarding a lot of the strengths that video games have in order to work well, and developers have to re-learn a lot more from scratch than I think anyone realized when the platforms started.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#198

I remain skeptical of the long term viability of VR; I’m old enough to remember when 3D TVs and monitors were going to change the face of both TV and video games, and yet here we are. I priced out VR recently and I was unimpressed with the price per value available, with most systems adding $500-$1,000 to my gaming system’s cost, and some requiring that I modify my room to work properly. And that’s not even accountin…

I've been owning a VR headset (a htc vive) for more than a year, now, and I concur with other comments : it's something else, and I think the only reason it's not taking over is the high price tag for a setup.

That being said, I use my VR headset probably even less than my 3d printer. As mindblowing as it is when I put the headset on (and truly, it never gets old), I realized it's just not for me.

I usually play games on my sofa, with a steam controller and the screen on my wall through a projector. I always play turn by turn or low intensity games rather than fast-paced action games. I have my laptop on front of me on my coffee table, and constantly check my mailbox, rss feeds and many sources of news, on the laptop between playing two turns in the games or message with friends on my phone.

This is a funny thing, because I didn't realized that before I bought a VR headset : basically, I'm always multitasking during my leisure time, and you just can't do that in VR. Each time I think "hey, let's chill in No Man's Sky", my immediate reaction is "oh wait, but if I do that, I can do _only_ that", and I play a classic game instead.

Now, this is a very personal experience, maybe that won't be a problem for anyone else. But as far as I'm concerned, VR fullfills all its promises, and yet it's not for me.

EDIT : fun fact, the time when VR is really useful for me is during week-end during the day when I don't feel like working on a side project or learning a new thing. I can't use the projector with daylight, so in those cases I'll just put the VR headset on rather than closing shutters.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#199
post #49

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What things have have Macs had in terms on non-backwards compatibility? Genuinely curious here - don’t say 32 bit, they released the last desktop Mac OS that ran on 32bit hardware more than a decade ago. (I’m not saying that I disagree with some of the other issues)

32 bits was dropped this year, not a decade ago. That killed hundreds of macOS games. Another major issue is broken OpenGL: bad drivers, very old version and nowadays deprecated. In 2010 macOS gaming was in a good spot. Nowadays, Apple is making sure you don't use Macs for games.

No, 32bit hardware was dropped a decade ago. There has not been a Mac sold that isn’t capable of running 64bit software for even longer.

32bit was dropped in Catalina, the prior release a year earlier started making it clear it was going away.

Neither intel nor amd sell 32bit only desktop processors, and possibly not even laptops.

Game developers complain about performance all the time, but given simply recompiling you 64bit gives (IIRC) a 15+% perf win it continues to amaze me that devs insist on producing 32 bit only software.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then why not run macOS? You value controlling as much of your computing environment as possible? Want source to all the software you use? Do we really need to explain the merits of libre software still in 2020?

I think you’re responding to a strawman rather than my comment, which was in a thread about developing for Macs being difficult on non-Apple hardware because they can’t run macOS and the “solution” being buying Apple hardware and not running macOS on it.

The ideal case isn't running OS X, it's for (Apple to allow) Windows (or Linux) to output OS X builds. Switching to OS X doesn't solve that. A quick read of Apple's license would imply that's prohibited, thus it's a clever bit of rules lawyering to suss out that Apple's license doesn't require that their software be running on bare-metal on OS X, just Apple hardware. This means it's possible to output OS X builds while not running OS X, in limited cases with the proper configuration.
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