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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#321

Post by remarkEon »

willvarfar wrote: post #312
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #215

I really dislike the way in which this article has been written - it reads as the typical piece from the "bro culture" that massively ignores the rest of the world. Besides this, which is not the point... 1) most restaurants in US and high-end Europe that survive and thrive do so by having big margins on alcohol. Their margins are not single-digits. (edit: just saw other comments mentioning this). 2) Many restaurateu…

Re point 1, there has been a major change in pubs in the U.K. All are trying to migrate into dining, as the margins on alcohol have fallen. Those that didn’t become restaurants have basically gone bust. There are no longer any normal classic pubs in England! I know a couple that tried to rejuvenate a failing “free house” in a tourist hotspot and failed. Passing the spot recently I saw it is now a pub restaurant like…

That's fascinating, because I've seen almost the exact opposite where I am (west coast USA). A lot of places where I am have transformed into take-out only or take-out + on-demand booze. Or even just take-out booze, with cocktail kits. The places that were mainly food (my favorite brunch place that I'd take everyone to who visits went belly up in early April) have all either closed down or tried to innovate to sell their food or alcohol as a pick up or delivery service. Semi high-end establishments that sold no food have innovated to sell these elaborate cocktail packages that will probably at least keep the lights on until this is over. At least, that's what I hope.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#322

Post by Tomte »

I hate the jargon where "protein" means "meat".

It debases the thing. Why don't you sprinkle some whey powder or something over your Döner?

I know that train has left the station, but damn, why would you willingly remove yourself from what the food really is? Do you also drink ethanol instead of wine? Do you smears lipids on your bread instead of butter?

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#323

Post by remarkEon »

m_mueller wrote: post #292
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's assuming the zoning allows the space to be subdivided.

I think you may have boiled the problem down to its essence. Search for Japanese vs. US zoning laws to see the two extremes. European countries tend to be somewhere in the middle. Same pattern can be observed with restaurant sizes and their variety.

Yep, it's this. Zoning laws in US urban centers are an absolute nightmare to navigate. If you have the time (and the gall) consider looking up the zoning laws that exist across what a normal person would consider "Los Angeles".

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#324

Post by nullc »

sl1ck731 wrote: post #280
nullc wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the benefits of selling an addictive substance in a market with a large base of addicts and a legal environment that largely shields you from liability for even the fairly direct consequences of your product (such as drunk driving after serving at places and times where the non-availability of alternatives guarentees that most of your patrons will be driving).

Are you arguing for prohibition? Or just prohibition outside of a few handful of cities where driving is uncommon?

I wasn't arguing for anything-- it's just an observation.

A bar would be a very different and less profitable business if they had the normal spectrum of liability other businesses have when their actions result in predictable harm. Or even if just law enforcement weren't effectively prevented from staking out bars and stopping obviously drunk patrons as soon as they started to drive.

Similarly, I also believe they'd be much less profitable if not for the rather alarming amount of addiction and abuse.

I don't think prohibition is a good idea but the fact that I'm opposed to prohibition doesn't make me blind to the externalities that bars create which are a component of their profitability.

There are lots of less than perfect things in the world. We can make them better by willing to discuss them and not being to quick to assume that any criticism is a call for a prohibition. In this case, especially, there was a comparison with other businesses and more than anything I wanted to point out that it wasn't a fair comparison because of bars unusual amount of externalized costs.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#325

Post by superzadeh »

Wait, $11 for a Doner? It's 3.5 EUR here in Berlin, and there's 2 Doner shops at EVERY corner. Maybe the issue not just the restaurant price, but also the underlying system that (doesn't) support them? Even if you double the price, at 7EUR (which is typically needed when comparing things like Salary between EU/US), there's still a large difference. I'd be curious to know how German Doner shops are doing, and what are their unit economics.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#326

Post by nullc »

smabie wrote: post #284
nullc wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the benefits of selling an addictive substance in a market with a large base of addicts and a legal environment that largely shields you from liability for even the fairly direct consequences of your product (such as drunk driving after serving at places and times where the non-availability of alternatives guarentees that most of your patrons will be driving).

Well, like, food is addictive too. In fact, pretty much anything and everything is addictive to someone, no matter how mundane or weird.

Are you suggesting that alcohol addiction is equivalent to 'pretty much anything and everything [being] addictive to someone'?

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#327

Post by gladskdks »

RandallBrown wrote: post #124
triceratops wrote: post #50

> Drinks for instance cost us more than at the grocery store — but we can’t exactly go get 20 cases of pop per day, so we don’t have much choice. I didn't understand this. It may not be feasible to buy 100 cases of pop at a regular grocery store, but isn't Costco/Sam's Club set up for that? I do think it comes down ultimately to real estate prices. Major metros in North America have gradually become unaffordable for…

I'm not sure why you couldn't buy 20 cases of pop per day at a big grocery store. There's more than 20 cases of each flavor at my local grocery store and there's lots of other grocery stores nearby that have the same selection. Also, you're right. Costco exists too.

A few reasons:

One: the shop often wouldn't let you buy up their whole supply

Two: there are likely other restaurants in the area, so that's 20*N boxes a day

Three: lots of countries have resale laws that prevent this

Four: that's a lot of time to spend every day when you can get a single delivery every week / two weeks instead

Five: the delivery often includes the collection of the used bottles (when using glass) and that otherwise can cost a lot

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#328

Post by wiredfool »

mikekchar wrote: post #214

I suspect some of these prices are generously rounded up. I think there is a very good possibility that the author doesn't actually track costs down to that level. They are probably looking at their overall costs and extrapolating downwards to the one item. Possibly a good review of their spending could save them a lot of money. Yes, I realise it is Ottawa and CDN, but I lived in Ottawa for over 10 years and these pr…

I doubt it. The 30-30-30-10 rule is pretty standard, I heard it 30 years back.

You might be able to drop the protein costs using cheap restaurant supply quality stuff, but then your product is basically straight from the sysco box at that point, and anyone with an account can do the same thing.

About the labor numbers tho, that’s an average over everything. Labor includes prep, dishwashers, the cashier, everyone. It’s not just what you can see.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#329

Post by wiredfool »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #246
triceratops wrote: post #50

> Drinks for instance cost us more than at the grocery store — but we can’t exactly go get 20 cases of pop per day, so we don’t have much choice. I didn't understand this. It may not be feasible to buy 100 cases of pop at a regular grocery store, but isn't Costco/Sam's Club set up for that? I do think it comes down ultimately to real estate prices. Major metros in North America have gradually become unaffordable for…

That part seemed strange to me. According to people I know that have worked in food/beverage industry, the most expensive part of a cup of Coke at a movie theater or fast food restaurant is the actual cup itself. The liquid inside the cup costs pennies.

My first boss said the ice was the most expensive part. But that just may have been his occasionally flakey ice machine.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#330

Post by gladskdks »

virtualritz wrote: post #41

Amazing. 11 USD for a döner! A döner is between 2.5 and 5.0 EUR in Berlin (roughly 2.75 to 5.5 USD). That's takeaway or eat in at a place with a few tables but w/o table service. Meraba, which uses high quality organic meat from the region, comparable to the quality of the protein stated in the article, asks 4.5 EUR. A whole plate is 10 EUR.[1] If order to your doorstep it's 6.5 EUR.[2] [1] https://www.top10berlin.de…

The same in Zurich would cost 10-15USD. Some places would do a plate for 15USD.

Prices really do vary wildly across Europe.

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