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Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

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Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#281
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how does cashless pay make it cost a few bucks per serving more? If it is that, why would anyone offer cashless payment? Most Döner and other Street Foods in Austria are cash only, but that's not the reason a typically priced Döner costs ~5€

Cash-only means no card reader rental, which saves a couple hundred per month and at least 5% of every transaction, and possibly no internet bill, either... But you can't go cash-only because so few people carry cash, that our would drive out your sales.

Banks charge for handling large volumes of cash though - can be as high as 2% I think; and as others have said 5% is way way more than you'd be paying to accept card payments. If anything the economic incentives are towards going completely cashless these days.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#282

Something's up. In Germany in a normal city I can get a döner the same size as the one in the photo for €3 ($3.50?). It's not sourdough nor high quality protein but that can't explain the $7.50 difference. Edit: as the commenter below reminded me, it's actually more like €4-5 but my point stands.

It's not really that accurate to compare costs across markets like this. There are too many variables.

Something like the Big Mac index is a good way to reveal this: https://fxssi.com/big-mac-index

Canada is ~10% more than the Euro area.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#283

I suspect some of these prices are generously rounded up. I think there is a very good possibility that the author doesn't actually track costs down to that level. They are probably looking at their overall costs and extrapolating downwards to the one item. Possibly a good review of their spending could save them a lot of money. Yes, I realise it is Ottawa and CDN, but I lived in Ottawa for over 10 years and these pr…

$2 per 100g is about $8.50 per pound.

I don't know what prices in Ottawa are like but that really doesn't sound that outrageous for a high quality beef depending on the cut, whether it's grass fed, etc.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#284
post #209
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it’s funny that she ever mentions booze, where the markups are 200-500%. If you can use your tables and food to sell bottles of wine, you can really improve your bottom line.

Ah the benefits of selling an addictive substance in a market with a large base of addicts and a legal environment that largely shields you from liability for even the fairly direct consequences of your product (such as drunk driving after serving at places and times where the non-availability of alternatives guarentees that most of your patrons will be driving).

Well, like, food is addictive too. In fact, pretty much anything and everything is addictive to someone, no matter how mundane or weird.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#285
post #133

Amazing. 11 USD for a döner! A döner is between 2.5 and 5.0 EUR in Berlin (roughly 2.75 to 5.5 USD). That's takeaway or eat in at a place with a few tables but w/o table service. Meraba, which uses high quality organic meat from the region, comparable to the quality of the protein stated in the article, asks 4.5 EUR. A whole plate is 10 EUR.[1] If order to your doorstep it's 6.5 EUR.[2] [1] https://www.top10berlin.de…

I honestly thought that was cheap, and that the answer to the problem was: charge more. I would pay $15 for that doner. Looks delicious.

And for $15 in Berlin you would expect a main course, glass of wine, and espresso in a decent sit-down place, tips included.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#286
post #260
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah the benefits of selling an addictive substance in a market with a large base of addicts and a legal environment that largely shields you from liability for even the fairly direct consequences of your product (such as drunk driving after serving at places and times where the non-availability of alternatives guarentees that most of your patrons will be driving).

Most customers who have a glass of wine or beer with their dinner don't qualify as addicted. Also, the restaurants make the same (or even more profit) when selling alcohol-free beverages with their food.

Yeah, but I don't generally sit down and drink 3 cokes in one sitting. Alcohol is a great money maker because there's a large standard deviation to how many drinks a given person might order. It would be very rare for a customer to drink 3 cokes with dinner but not uncommon for someone to order 3 beers.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#287
post #112

I worked bar and restaurant for 25 years. I would never, ever open or own a restaurant voluntarily. The margins are minuscule and require huge up-front costs with micro-managed inventory, labor and quality control to break even. Bars however are a dream. Inventory control is simply tracking portions and comps. Outside of garnishes nothing rots or goes bad. And assuming tips are good, labor is no worry either. We had…

So I know (not personally) this guy named Ian McCollum. He's kind of well known on youtube, filming/writing/presenting on a topic that is personally very interesting to him. He graduated from Purdue with a degree in mechanical engineer. But he didn't want to settle with a 9 to 5 job and a normal life, just to pay his bills. So instead he earned some extra small pile of money after college and set up a low cost life s…

Why didn't he just get a engineering job for 2 or 3 years? Presumably he would have made lot more money.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, who's going to pay $15 or $20 for a sandwich? Most people will pass.

Why will they pass? What's the calculus? "I could make it myself for less" ? "It used to be less" ? "It shouldn't cost that much " ? Isn't it more likely to be true that they will pass because they've become accustomed to crazy low prizes for prepared foods?

Personally I think it's mostly the last one: I know what sandwiches are "worth" and you are trying to fleece me, or your high price is because you are bad at running a business and it's not my problem. No one likes to be conned or make up for someone else's mistakes, that stings a lot more than just paying a few dollars more. I've noticed a vaguer version of that train of thought in my own head more than once.

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#289
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how does cashless pay make it cost a few bucks per serving more? If it is that, why would anyone offer cashless payment? Most Döner and other Street Foods in Austria are cash only, but that's not the reason a typically priced Döner costs ~5€

Cash-only means no card reader rental, which saves a couple hundred per month and at least 5% of every transaction, and possibly no internet bill, either... But you can't go cash-only because so few people carry cash, that our would drive out your sales.

> at least 5% of every transaction

In EU 0.3% or 0.2% depending on card type: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-payments-cards-idUSKBN...

Re: Why Restaurants Are So Fucked

#290
I am indeed worried about restaurants short-term, because they are one business difficult to run under the current hygene rules. Many restaurants here in Germany have switched to offer take-away food, so while drastically down, their business is not going away completely. And of course, the market isn't going away. As soon as restaurants can operate mostly normal again, the demand will be back, if not even much higher at least initially, because everyone is missing eating out at the moment.

So the question is more, can the restaurants survive the time in between? And this is not a question of margin, it is a question of fixed costs. The employee costs are quite reduced, as they are fired or on temporary leave. Here in Germany, the salaries are covered to large parts by the government and public insurance in times where there is not enough work for a business as a whole. This leaves the rent for the restaurant as the big cost factor and the rent is also the biggest cost factor which makes restaurants struggle in normal times. Which also kills all attempts an raising the margin as described in the article. And this isn't limited to restaurants only, the true reason small shops are disappearing isn't only online purchase, it is the real estate costs which keep rising until the shops and restaurants are operating at minimal margin. This is where in this crisis and going forward, the survival of restaurants and businesses is decided.

For the restaurants themselves, a lot can and should be improved to raise their margins. First of all, many restaurants are badly run. It is easy to cook and serve a burger, it is an entirely different challenge to run the business so that you make a profit. This is why some restaurants are in a constant struggle while others are hugely profitable. And of course, as with any lasting business, you have to put money aside in good times to survive bad times.

The post doesn't talk about beverages. At least here in Europe, the places often are just making even at the food while earning a lot with beverages. Especially as in the evenings, people don't leave the restaurant so quickly after the food has been eaten, but stay for some more drinks and conversation. This is why I always order a drink even when being out for lunch. When they serve me a glass of water for 2-3€, that is basically their profit.

But all of that goes to nothing, if all the profit is absorbed by the real estate costs. Short term, the landlords will have to waive quite a large part of their rent, or they are going to find out that a bankrupt restaurant pays no rent at all. Long term, the communities have to work at keeping costs reasonable.

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