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Valve drops VR support for macOS

techcrunch.com

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Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#151

Post by vbezhenar »

Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

IMO #3 is the only significant issue. Developer will overcome any struggles if payback worth it.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#152

Post by mekanicalsyncop »

yellowapple wrote: post #116
mekanicalsyncop wrote: post #61

Everyone's talking about the slower hardware. IMO the biggest hurdle to gaming is Mac OS's baked in mouse acceleration and whatever else makes 100% of mice feel absolutely terrible on a Mac. Even the magic mouse feels janky. I followed a bunch of online guides to do everything I can to disable the acceleration and everything else, but for some reason when I try to play a game it still feels terrible. Even when the ga…

What's sad is that once upon a time (back when macOS was called OS X, and when iMacs used PowerPC CPUs) the mouse acceleration was great, and the cursor buttery smooth, at least so I thought.

I really like a lot about MacOS but unfortunately I didn't get a chance to ever use it until 2014 so I wasn't able to experience that.

I'd get rid of my Windows computer in an instant if it wasn't for the poor support Mac has for gaming. Windows is fine but I enjoy the Mac workflow more.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#153

Post by pengaru »

Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

> 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine.

I build for OSX from Linux using clang all the time. You just need to grab the sdk from xcode and get your toolchain all setup.

https://github.com/tpoechtrager/osxcross

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#154

Post by ComputerGuru »

chaostheory wrote: post #119
olliej wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, since when is a few hundred dollars “extremely expensive”?

I've been part of the Apple cult for a while now. I've even started to bulk at the price / benefit ratio ever since 2017.

(Balk not bulk. Just FYI.)

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#155

Post by baby »

ashtonkem wrote: post #30
Taek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but have you played beat saber? I'm dead serious though the experience you get in a good immersive VR rig is completely unrivaled. Well worth the hassle and overhead. This will get better as costs come down and developers continue to innovate.

Obviously I have not tried beat saber. If it’s that amazing, I wouldn’t be posting cynical takes on VR. I think one of the problems of VR is one of cost and credibility. Even if I knew you personally and trusted you, there is no way in hell I’m going to float thousands of dollars getting a new gaming PC, VR headset, and customizing my room for the full setup just because someone said it’s amazing. The risk/reward rat…

The Oculus quest is 400$ and it's pretty amazing.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#156

Post by cpeterso »

Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

> 1. No cross platform builds allowed.

Mozilla cross compiles Mac (and soon Windows, I believe) Firefox builds on Linux build machines.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#157

Post by phire »

pcr910303 wrote: post #11
wtallis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason is that Apple's pushing their own graphics API (Metal) rather than supporting the cross-platform Vulkan API. Apple also doesn't make any machines targeted for gaming use, and they haven't used NVidia graphics chips for quite a while and don't ship drivers for recent NVidia chips, so even Hackintosh users have trouble building a great Mac gaming system.

TBF, Apple’s Metal was developed before Bulkan while tackling the same problem, and for the NVidia chips, the reason on the bad relationship of NVidia/Apple is mostly on NVidia, right?

It doesn't matter if Metal was first, or better.

The problem is that it's unique and different. The problem is that I (as an open source developer for a popular gaming-related project with an OSX port) can't realistically develop and support a metal backend without having to buy an expensive mac with a good modern GPU.

And with OpenGL being deprecated on Mac, with old and (sometimes) broken drivers that are missing 10 year old features, along with apple breaking things and adding new signing/notarising requirements, it's hard to justify continuing to support mac.

Same kind of thing goes for Nvidia/Apple. It doesn't matter who's fault it is for starting that feud, it's still hurting the users.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#158

Post by ComputerGuru »

lookdangerous wrote: post #73
Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

I suppose they do that so you know what using a Mac is like when you develop for it. Macs are, in my experience, different than other machines.

Games are different, though. They don’t play as part of the ecosystem; they run full-screen and do their own input processing and use no system widgets or controls. They essentially take over the lowest level of hardware they can get access to, and in many ways once launched would be indistinguishable between the various platforms (quirks and rendering idiosyncrasies aside).

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#159

Post by pnako »

paxys wrote: post #65
Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

Agree with everything except > 4. Culture. Steve Jobs disliked games, it shows in Apple's support. IMO their lack of support has less to do with hate and more that they just didn't find value in that demographic. No one is making money off gaming hardware. On the other hand Apple has put in a LOT of effort into iOS gaming. Steve Jobs himself had multiple games showcased in his keynotes.

>No one is making money off gaming hardware.

Some gaming keyboards full of fancy LEDs and software and stuff and military-grade whatever retail for the price of a small car.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#160

Post by chongli »

tonygrue wrote: post #4
baby wrote: post #2

I don't understand why a Mac is such a bad platform for gaming, what is the technical challenge here? Can someone enlighten me?

As the article alludes, lack of a build your own, flexible yet affordable desktop option seems to be a pretty deadly aspect. Pretty much Mac owners are on laptops. Even in the PC world few laptops can power VR. Those that do tend to be bulky for cooling and have nVidia GPUs; both things which MacBooks seem unwilling to have. Having a extensible desktop at 1k that supports nVidia would probably go a long way.

lack of a build your own, flexible yet affordable desktop option

From Apple's perspective, that's a machine with razor-thin margins. Why would they want to sell that when all of their other products have enviable margins?

Moreover, such a machine would cannibalize their high-end Mac Pro sales. After all the money they spent to develop it, having your pro customers scoop up the thin margin gaming machines seems like a poor strategy.

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