Live data from Hacker News

Valve drops VR support for macOS

techcrunch.com

91–100 of 287 posts

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#91
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing

Right, but display buffering is a solution to the vertical sync issue that has existed for as long as raster graphics. You can’t buy a GPU without it. Now that I’ve had more time since I read the post, I think they may have been referring to adaptive refresh rate.

I don't think adaptive refresh rate is what that post was referring to. Instead, I think it was referring to the difficulty in doing frame synchronization when the game is running on the discrete GPU but the display is connected to the integrated GPU. But I don't know how Apple's hardware is set up on that score.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#92
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What things have have Macs had in terms on non-backwards compatibility? Genuinely curious here - don’t say 32 bit, they released the last desktop Mac OS that ran on 32bit hardware more than a decade ago. (I’m not saying that I disagree with some of the other issues)

I started developing an iOS client for an API we use at work recently. Downloaded Xcode again, built a small POC Mac app and ran it. It wouldn't run because I am still on Mojave and the default settings are to build for 10.15. I was a little shocked/not surprised to get a "This application is not compatible with your software" type dialog from my own brand new code! I really like a lot of the ideas that Apple impleme…

You can write applications that run all the way back to Mac OS X 10.6 using the latest Xcode. However, our of the box a new project is going to be configured to build for the latest macOS supported by the version of Xcode you’re using. It’s very easy to set your deployment target to an older operating system though.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#93
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you run direct3d on your Linux and Mac systems?

We’re talking about Vulkan. Why are you asking about D3D?

There are Vulkan and OpenGL -> metal libraries. The original post gave windows (where the better performing native api is direct3d) As an example.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started developing an iOS client for an API we use at work recently. Downloaded Xcode again, built a small POC Mac app and ran it. It wouldn't run because I am still on Mojave and the default settings are to build for 10.15. I was a little shocked/not surprised to get a "This application is not compatible with your software" type dialog from my own brand new code! I really like a lot of the ideas that Apple impleme…

You can write applications that run all the way back to Mac OS X 10.6 using the latest Xcode. However, our of the box a new project is going to be configured to build for the latest macOS supported by the version of Xcode you’re using. It’s very easy to set your deployment target to an older operating system though.

Yes, you're absolutely right and this is not generally a problem (although obviously APIs get deprecated, etc). All my projects have a cycle, though, where I open them back up and have to turn several knobs in the build settings to get them to build. It's not often an issue with the code aging out, but the Xcode configuration. I got a pretty good chuckle when that happened to a brand new project right off the bat.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously I have not tried beat saber. If it’s that amazing, I wouldn’t be posting cynical takes on VR. I think one of the problems of VR is one of cost and credibility. Even if I knew you personally and trusted you, there is no way in hell I’m going to float thousands of dollars getting a new gaming PC, VR headset, and customizing my room for the full setup just because someone said it’s amazing. The risk/reward rat…

When the Oculus Rift and its development kits first released, early adopters would post invitations to interested people in their area to try them out. Many shopping malls and arcades now have VR demos or games on display. There are options available to try high-end VR before you buy, and ~$200 low-end versions if you prefer going in blind.

I tried an oculus. It was ok, but I walked away utterly unconvinced of the value proposition.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#96
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but display buffering is a solution to the vertical sync issue that has existed for as long as raster graphics. You can’t buy a GPU without it. Now that I’ve had more time since I read the post, I think they may have been referring to adaptive refresh rate.

I don't think adaptive refresh rate is what that post was referring to. Instead, I think it was referring to the difficulty in doing frame synchronization when the game is running on the discrete GPU but the display is connected to the integrated GPU. But I don't know how Apple's hardware is set up on that score.

Yeah, the problem was making sure we didn't have screen tearing. T he only path to video was through the mobile integrated graphics interface even when using the external graphics chip. On a desktop CPU you can DMA into graphics memory directly and get the frame sync.

I think you have to do this if you want to be able to switch between integrated and external. Which we didn't care about but perhaps most people do?

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#97
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously I have not tried beat saber. If it’s that amazing, I wouldn’t be posting cynical takes on VR. I think one of the problems of VR is one of cost and credibility. Even if I knew you personally and trusted you, there is no way in hell I’m going to float thousands of dollars getting a new gaming PC, VR headset, and customizing my room for the full setup just because someone said it’s amazing. The risk/reward rat…

I spent like $2000 on a VR setup so I could play Half Life Alyx without ever trying VR before. Remember that the gaming PC is very usable without the VR headset! I built a backpack portable mini-itx build with a used NVIDIA 1080Ti. Then 6 months later I got a Valve Index. Didn’t change my room at all other than moving my coffee table when I want to play. My current game is Audica which is such a blast. But yeah. It w…

Wow, that’s quite a large amount of money to spend for one game.

I find $60 for AAA titles a marginal proposition.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#98
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously I have not tried beat saber. If it’s that amazing, I wouldn’t be posting cynical takes on VR. I think one of the problems of VR is one of cost and credibility. Even if I knew you personally and trusted you, there is no way in hell I’m going to float thousands of dollars getting a new gaming PC, VR headset, and customizing my room for the full setup just because someone said it’s amazing. The risk/reward rat…

My house is open, any friend who wants to give beat saber (or half life, or space pirate trainer, etc.) a spin is welcome. No need to spend $1000 without getting a proper demo. I know not everyone has a friend with a high spec rig, but that is improving over time as well.

I literally don’t know a single person who owns a low-end VR rig, let alone a high spec one. That probably has something to do with my skepticism.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#99
post #24
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is using something like unreal engine not able to compile to all operating systems. I'm not a game developer so pardon my ignorance but can you not just run macOS on a VM from Windows to compile? Hardware isn't horrible from Apple. It's just more expensive for macOS and the complete build quality that has been slipping over the years. All Apple users know we're paying more for the hardware than machines preinstal…

> just run macOS on a VM As far as I know it is against the terms of service to run Mac OS on non-Apple hardware, so you can't just run a macOS VM. > Hardware isn't horrible from Apple. It's just more expensive for macOS. Is that not the same thing, effectively? For a given buying power, a player that chooses mac will have objectively poorer hardware. Yes, there are a few capable rigs for Apple systems, but they are…

When games are targeted to the Macs potential users have, they have always sold reasonably well. Back when the Mac market was far smaller, and it was much more difficult to develop a game, developers did OK.

If you start with the premise that you should just barely achieve 60fps with all effects enabled on this year’s top-of-the-line PC video card you’re artificially constraining your market. Make your game fun and make it run on as broad a set of users’ systems as possible and you have much better chances of doing well in any market.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always struck me as highly shortsighted of Jobs and other Apple leadership. Games helped to drive and define the Apple II and Macintosh successes, and the virtuous cycle of gamers growing up on those platforms and then wanting to try their hands at developing their own games for them is how many, many software developers got their start, including some who later found themselves at Apple. What's especially stran…

Games helped to drive and define the Apple II and Macintosh successes Apple II, but Macintosh? I'm not sure I agree with that. I think a lot of Jobs' opinions about personal computers gelled in the 80's. Back then, with the various Sinclair machines, the Ataris, the C64, and the Amiga, there were a lot of people who said that games actually harmed those platforms. In North America at least, having a large library of…

> You're a serious business man wearing a serious business suit, running a serious business, and you need computers from a serious business computer company that can run serious business software! You need an IBM!

To be fair, that mindset predates the use of personal computers to do serious graphics business. The Mac is largely responsible for making that mindset obsolete with things like desktop publishing and Photoshop. The same attributes that made the Mac a good platform for those use cases also made it much more suited to gaming than DOS-era PCs.

Post reply on HN