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Valve drops VR support for macOS

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Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#71

Post by jonahrd »

olliej wrote: post #52
willis936 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really solve the same problem? Can I run metal API on my windows or linux machines? Also, to answer your question: no. Nvidia is in the GPU selling business. They wouldn’t mind having their high priced GPUs in high priced laptops. Apple keeps control of what hardware they sell, which dictates what software gets developed. Why would Nvidia or Apple spend resources to make software for a computer that no one is…

Can you run direct3d on your Linux and Mac systems?

I can run OpenGL and Vulkan on my Windows system. MacOS is the only platform that has officially deprecated OpenGL support, and there is no plan for any future Vulkan support.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#72

Post by wtallis »

pcr910303 wrote: post #11
wtallis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason is that Apple's pushing their own graphics API (Metal) rather than supporting the cross-platform Vulkan API. Apple also doesn't make any machines targeted for gaming use, and they haven't used NVidia graphics chips for quite a while and don't ship drivers for recent NVidia chips, so even Hackintosh users have trouble building a great Mac gaming system.

TBF, Apple’s Metal was developed before Bulkan while tackling the same problem, and for the NVidia chips, the reason on the bad relationship of NVidia/Apple is mostly on NVidia, right?

Vulkan is the vendor-independent derivative of AMD's Mantle, which pre-dates Apple's Metal. There were several proposed new 3D APIs around that time, but ISVs quickly converged around Vulkan. Apple's reticence to adopt or even permit it is worse than Microsoft's continued efforts to push Direct3D.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#73

Post by lookdangerous »

Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

I suppose they do that so you know what using a Mac is like when you develop for it. Macs are, in my experience, different than other machines.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#75

Post by ultrarunner »

olliej wrote: post #49
Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

What things have have Macs had in terms on non-backwards compatibility? Genuinely curious here - don’t say 32 bit, they released the last desktop Mac OS that ran on 32bit hardware more than a decade ago. (I’m not saying that I disagree with some of the other issues)

I started developing an iOS client for an API we use at work recently. Downloaded Xcode again, built a small POC Mac app and ran it. It wouldn't run because I am still on Mojave and the default settings are to build for 10.15. I was a little shocked/not surprised to get a "This application is not compatible with your software" type dialog from my own brand new code!

I really like a lot of the ideas that Apple implements, but the upgrade treadmill is notorious and not one of them.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#76

Post by iphone_elegance »

sysbin wrote: post #64
deadbunny wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Otherwise I would invest in a eGPU. So it's not like apple gamers are missing out if they want to game with good graphics. You're not going to get very far without drivers an you'll be stuck on OpenGL 4.1 and Metal. That and you'll have the problem that there are less games built for MacOS than Windows an Linux + Proton. Investing in a GPU for MacOS for gaming would be a huge waste of money IMO.

People can bootcamp if they want to run windows with a good gpu on their laptop. You're also missing the cloud gaming part.

I'm not sold on cloud gaming yet, I gave pubg on stadia a whirl today (on my google fiber) and it was somewhat laggy and blurry compared to even my not-highend rx580 which only cost me about what a year or so of stadia would (not including the games)

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#77

Post by ihuman »

alasdair_ wrote: post #55
est31 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. No cross platform builds allowed. This is SO annoying. I can cross compile to Windows from GNU/Linux quite easily. In fact with Wine I can even get MSVC running. But Apple, even though they employ many of the Clang/LLVM developers, believes that you must use their OS to target any Apple product. Your only reprieve outside of buying their extremely expensive hardware is using CI services like Travis or Github act…

Even if you DO buy a lot of expensive hardware, it’s a giant pain in the ass. There are no good rackmount solutions and so we ended up with a room full of expensive “trashcan” macs and they were STILL the biggest drag on our build infra. This has been an issue for decades. Twenty years ago I was doing grid/HPC computing at Sun and there were a lot of bioinformatics firms that used macs and wanted compute clusters of…

It's possible to mount the trashcan mac pros with unofficial mounts, its just awkward and definitely not intended [0]. You can also mount iMac Pros [1].

[0] https://twitter.com/brianstucki/status/800778773998145536

[1] https://www.macstadium.com/imacpro

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#78

Post by wishinghand »

paxys wrote: post #65
Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

Agree with everything except > 4. Culture. Steve Jobs disliked games, it shows in Apple's support. IMO their lack of support has less to do with hate and more that they just didn't find value in that demographic. No one is making money off gaming hardware. On the other hand Apple has put in a LOT of effort into iOS gaming. Steve Jobs himself had multiple games showcased in his keynotes.

Jobs’ view always seemed short sighted to me. Yes, they were a hardware company back when he made these decisions, but software sells the hardware in the market he was in.

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#79

Post by willis936 »

olliej wrote: post #52
willis936 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really solve the same problem? Can I run metal API on my windows or linux machines? Also, to answer your question: no. Nvidia is in the GPU selling business. They wouldn’t mind having their high priced GPUs in high priced laptops. Apple keeps control of what hardware they sell, which dictates what software gets developed. Why would Nvidia or Apple spend resources to make software for a computer that no one is…

Can you run direct3d on your Linux and Mac systems?

We’re talking about Vulkan. Why are you asking about D3D?

Re: Valve drops VR support for macOS

#80

Post by whymauri »

paxys wrote: post #65
Danieru wrote: post #6

Mac is a horrible platform to support for video game developers. Speaking from experience the issues are: 1. No cross platform builds allowed. We can compile to Windows, Linux, Android, Switch, PS4, Xbox One all from one windows build machine. 2. Shifting sand of non-backwards compatibility. Notice how of the above list everyone except Linux and Android have solid back compat stories. Video games are in development f…

Agree with everything except > 4. Culture. Steve Jobs disliked games, it shows in Apple's support. IMO their lack of support has less to do with hate and more that they just didn't find value in that demographic. No one is making money off gaming hardware. On the other hand Apple has put in a LOT of effort into iOS gaming. Steve Jobs himself had multiple games showcased in his keynotes.

>No one is making money off gaming hardware.

Huh? I mean, surely nobody is making Apple-money from gaming hardware. But plenty of companies of various sizes are decently profitable and making money in this space.

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