Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool • Hacker News Board

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#11

Post by oso2k » Fri, May 01, 2020, 4:30 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #2

How popular is OpenShift? Seems cool but have never heard of anyone actually using it.

Disclaimer: I work for Red Hat Consulting where my day job is 100% OpenShift.

You're probably using applications and systems which are hosted on OpenShift [0][1]. Second article says we have over 1100 customers which seems low, to me at least. We have OpenShift in a lot of places and you don't realize it (which is how we intend it). A subset of our customers can be found here [2].

I've personally worked on some really interesting systems and projects, successfully faced off against Black Friday, and reached some really interesting scales. But at the end of the day, OpenShift is a Kubernetes distribution [3] with an opinionated install story, an opinionated AppDev story, and the ability to be deployed on-prem, in the public & private clouds, and on VMs or baremetal. The try it on your laptop method can be found here, branded CodeReady Containers [4]. If you want to just play with an already running system, try learn.openshift.com [5].

[0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/ibm-paid-34b-for-this-where-re...

[1] https://technology.informa.com/617145/red-hats-container-sof...

[2] https://www.openshift.com/learn/success-stories/

[3] https://github.com/openshift/okd

[4] https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2019/09/05/red-hat-opensh...

[5] https://learn.openshift.com/

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#12

Post by blinkingled » Fri, May 01, 2020, 4:33 PM UTC

pestaa wrote: post #9

blinkingled wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to deal with it past 2 years - it is extremely bloated, not very well thought out and anything that needs decently performing storage is screwed over by GlusterFS and now I guess Ceph. All in all you really want to carefully analyze which apps you want to put on it and how much benefit you are really getting out of it - because it isn't free in any sense of the word - licensing, maintenance, operations - you ar…

I want to get into OpenShift/OKD, but the distributed storage systems are quite frightening. There are plenty nightmare stories related to GlusterFS performance. However, strange as it sounds, I'm looking to deploy a cluster on a single node, primarily for the Kubernetes API & ecosystem (so many tooling options). What is your opinion on running K8s this way, and having only local RAID storage?

I have tried running OKD/OpenShift locally - even using the latest retake on it - Code Ready Containers. It is way too resource intensive for a single VM. That is before you start the prometheus/monitoring/alerting stuff or metrics server - at that point your single VM is good as dead.

You can just learn plain old K8S - get an Ubuntu VM and snap install microk8s. Add another vm as a node and it works well for most part and sans storage stuff (you can do NFS though) you can learn almost everything. After that catching up to OpenShift specifics is not that big of a deal - it's not all that different.

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#13

Post by oso2k » Fri, May 01, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

blinkingled wrote: post #5

verdverm wrote: post #2

How popular is OpenShift? Seems cool but have never heard of anyone actually using it.

I had to deal with it past 2 years - it is extremely bloated, not very well thought out and anything that needs decently performing storage is screwed over by GlusterFS and now I guess Ceph. All in all you really want to carefully analyze which apps you want to put on it and how much benefit you are really getting out of it - because it isn't free in any sense of the word - licensing, maintenance, operations - you ar…

Disclaimer: I work for Red Hat Consulting where my day job is 100% OpenShift.

Storage isn't easy on OpenShift unless you're in one of the public clouds. Even then, there's caveats based on (mis-)use cases and what nots [0].

But on complexity, I think companies and developers do it to themselves by getting excited about 12 Factor Apps, Microservices, and Event Driven Architectures and not understanding what that all means. OpenShift & Kubernetes just make that easier to roll out. At the end of the day, OpenShift & Kubernetes is just ELBs, App Routers, scheduling, monitoring, and logging systems, some orchestration tools [1].

[0] https://docs.openshift.com/container-platform/4.3/scalabilit...

[1] http://uncontained.io/articles/openshift-ha-installation/

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#14

Post by oso2k » Fri, May 01, 2020, 4:49 PM UTC

pestaa wrote: post #9

blinkingled wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to deal with it past 2 years - it is extremely bloated, not very well thought out and anything that needs decently performing storage is screwed over by GlusterFS and now I guess Ceph. All in all you really want to carefully analyze which apps you want to put on it and how much benefit you are really getting out of it - because it isn't free in any sense of the word - licensing, maintenance, operations - you ar…

I want to get into OpenShift/OKD, but the distributed storage systems are quite frightening. There are plenty nightmare stories related to GlusterFS performance. However, strange as it sounds, I'm looking to deploy a cluster on a single node, primarily for the Kubernetes API & ecosystem (so many tooling options). What is your opinion on running K8s this way, and having only local RAID storage?

As mentioned, CodeReady Containers (CRC) is the easy button for a single node setup [0]. But it is heavy for a single node. Alternatives for labs and demos are learn.openshift.com [1] and the All-in-One VM blog [2]. Storage isn't too important in a single node setup unless you're looking for Metrics, Logging, and Monitoring to be turned on. You could use NFS if you have to. Just don't do that in Production, IMO.

[0] https://developers.redhat.com/blog/2019/09/05/red-hat-opensh...

[1] https://learn.openshift.com/

[2] https://www.openshift.com/blog/revamped-openshift-all-in-one...

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#15

Post by oso2k » Fri, May 01, 2020, 4:51 PM UTC

nova22033 wrote: post #10

Existing tools such as oc are more operations-focused and require a deep understanding of Kubernetes and OpenShift concepts oc and kubectl commands are interchangable for the most part. This will lock you down to openshift.

Check the SHAs. They're actually the same binary. :D

On a properly installed system with the `openshift-clients` or `atomic-openshift-utils` rpms installed, `oc` and `kubectl` will have the same SHAs.

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#16

Post by jasonv » Fri, May 01, 2020, 4:58 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #2

How popular is OpenShift? Seems cool but have never heard of anyone actually using it.

I work for a financial institution using openshift in cloud. Learning it now.

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#17

Post by oso2k » Fri, May 01, 2020, 5:02 PM UTC

blinkingled wrote: post #8

pestaa wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it means that any existing OpenShift cluster is equipped with the necessary infrastructure and APIs exposed so that there is no Odo-specific server component required. I agree the wording is unfortunate. Kinda like "serverless".

Yeah, OpenShift cluster is the server for this tool - saying it is fully client based because it doesn't need additional server is - I don't know what :) (Besides the tool it is replacing - oc - doesn't need another server either.)

`oc` does need a server for a lot of things, unfortunately. Just do a `oc [...] --loglevel=9` to see what it's doing.

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#18

Post by blinkingled » Fri, May 01, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

oso2k wrote: post #13

blinkingled wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to deal with it past 2 years - it is extremely bloated, not very well thought out and anything that needs decently performing storage is screwed over by GlusterFS and now I guess Ceph. All in all you really want to carefully analyze which apps you want to put on it and how much benefit you are really getting out of it - because it isn't free in any sense of the word - licensing, maintenance, operations - you ar…

Disclaimer: I work for Red Hat Consulting where my day job is 100% OpenShift. Storage isn't easy on OpenShift unless you're in one of the public clouds. Even then, there's caveats based on (mis-)use cases and what nots [0]. But on complexity, I think companies and developers do it to themselves by getting excited about 12 Factor Apps, Microservices, and Event Driven Architectures and not understanding what that all m…

> OpenShift & Kubernetes is just ELBs, App Routers, scheduling, monitoring, and logging systems, some orchestration tools

True but consider this - there used to be people whose job it was to do most of that stuff and the app developers did not have to think about it for the most part. Kubernetes/OpenShift just moved all of the complexity on the developer's plate - and the mind numbing stuff that results from that is worthy of few articles. And to say most developers have no way to actually run this at their home and become familiar with the intricacies is even more asinine.

This isn't a OpenShift/K8s critique per se but the whole idea that you can somehow make all the complexity disappear by writing more software and more abstractions and then let the developers deal with all things that organizations failed to account for in the need for cheap and fast - it doesn't really work all that well.

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#19

Post by blinkingled » Fri, May 01, 2020, 5:07 PM UTC

oso2k wrote: post #17

blinkingled wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, OpenShift cluster is the server for this tool - saying it is fully client based because it doesn't need additional server is - I don't know what :) (Besides the tool it is replacing - oc - doesn't need another server either.)

`oc` does need a server for a lot of things, unfortunately. Just do a `oc [...] --loglevel=9` to see what it's doing.

And what server would that be - the OpenShift master/API server right? That's the one. But it's the same with odo. None need an additional server is what I was saying.

Re: Red Hat releases new OpenShift CLI developer tool

#20

Post by ofrzeta » Fri, May 01, 2020, 5:17 PM UTC

cagenut wrote: post #4

verdverm wrote: post #2

How popular is OpenShift? Seems cool but have never heard of anyone actually using it.

its just kubernetes for redhat shops, so it will be roughly as popular as redhat enterprise and ibm services contracts. which is to say, probably billions in revenue, and yet no one on HN will touch it.

I would always consider it as an option because it is 100% open source and has all the primitives that are needed for the prevalent use case that is CI/CD. For instance built-in Jenkins, Imagestreams, Build Configs...