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Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

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Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#61

Post by SlowRobotAhead »

gpderetta wrote: post #53
SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flu are caused by the viruses, pneumonia is the serious bacterial infection of the lungs potentially caused by having influenza. You would count seasonal pneumonia if you wanted to see how serious that seasonal flu was.

Technically no, in addition to bacterial pneumonia (which is often caused by opportunistic infection after a virual invection), there is straight viral pneumonia without any bacterial infection. Even fungi by themselves can cause pneumonia. The difference is that flu does not always cause pneumonia.

> The difference is that flu does not always cause pneumonia

Did not think I implied it did. But no, you’re right, it’s why the flu is more dangerous old people.

My understanding of fungus introduced to the lungs is that it’s also carrying bacteria. But yes, there are lots of things you can introduce the lungs cause light to severe pneumonia.

If you want to pro tip, stirring your protein powder well, if you don’t and inhale as powder it on your first sip you can have a bad couple weeks.

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#62

Post by rsynnott »

dominotw wrote: post #29

I have a simple covid related question, hopefully someone can answer this here. We have been under lockdown for over 6 weeks here in chicago. But chicago had highest number of deaths all of this week[1]. If we were under lockdown 6 weeks ago how did the people who died this week get infected. Does this mean ppl aren't following the guidelines properly ? I feel like I am missing something obvious here. 1. https://chic…

Chicago's lockdown may not be very effective. For instance, per https://www.apple.com/covid19/mobility/, there's a way smaller decrease in movement than, say, London or Paris.

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#63

Post by Mary-Jane »

Mary-Jane wrote: post #58
ceejayoz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SARS-CoV-2 is not airborne. https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-t... > In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported. Some animals can get it, but don't appear to be a major source of transmission to humans. The pipes thing is unconfirmed and that's in one special case of broken plumbing. https://cph.temple.edu/about/news-events/news/can-coronaviru...

So what's the point of wearing masks then?

* masks! Not balls. lol

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#64

Post by ceejayoz »

Mary-Jane wrote: post #58
ceejayoz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SARS-CoV-2 is not airborne. https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-t... > In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported. Some animals can get it, but don't appear to be a major source of transmission to humans. The pipes thing is unconfirmed and that's in one special case of broken plumbing. https://cph.temple.edu/about/news-events/news/can-coronaviru...

So what's the point of wearing masks then?

SARS-CoV-2 is spread by droplets, which fall to the ground rapidly. Masks catch a lot of these, and slow down the rest. When coupled with six foot distancing, that has a major impact.

Airborne transmission means the virus hangs out in the air for an extended period of time. SARS-CoV-2 does not do this. Stuff like measles does.

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#65

Post by Fjolsvith »

ceejayoz wrote: post #32
HPsquared wrote: post #25

Flu or not, it's possible to compare all-cause mortality this year against previous years. That's about as hard data as it gets. How does Covid compare to "seasonal all-cause-winter-deaths"? That's what people are interested in - how unprecedented is the death rate?

It's possible, and it's being done. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/27/upshot/corona... > The recent death count reached six times the normal number of deaths for the city at this time of year, a surge in deaths much larger than what could be attributed to normal seasonal variations from influenza, heart disease or other more common causes. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav... >…

> These numbers undermine the notion that many people who have died from the virus may soon have died anyway. In Paris, more than twice the usual number of people have died each day, far more than the peak of a bad flu season. In New York City, the number has spiked to six times the normal amount.

I'm betting that in the next few years the death rate will drastically fall because the only people left will be really healthy.

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#66

Post by bmat »

For people getting hung up on the apples to oranges analogy: imagine you're a farmer. You're hearing reports that there's a huge surplus of oranges and everyone is cutting production. You have a lot of orange trees, so you're understandably upset by this and decide to look into it. Some journalists, politicians, and your uncle Jimmy say it's all overblown—there are about as many apples as there are oranges on the market this year. No surplus, no need to cut production.

Then Agricultural American puts out an article showing that data on oranges is being reported by farmers as oranges are picked, whereas data on apples is being estimated based on much fewer reports. The conclusion is that the apples-to-oranges comparison should be taken with a grain of salt.

This is in addition to reports that show orange yields are likely underreported based on overall measures of fruit on the market[1], as well as anecdotal reports of fruit storage being overwhelmed by oranges[2].

Ok I think we can go ahead and report this analogy as another COVID-19-related death.

[1]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronav...

[2]https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-body-bags-begin-to-fi...

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#67

Post by bjt2n3904 »

As interesting as this article is... you absolutely can compare Covid-19 deaths to Flu Deaths. It's a far better comparison than, say, the people who note that we are having a 9/11 Terrorist Attack every day. I think the fear is that people will look at the death toll alone -- but if you include timespan as a point of comparison, it becomes very helpful to developing an understanding.

But as long as we're suddenly concerned about understanding the statistics about deaths... the 40,000 people that die annually to "gun violence", over half are suicides.

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#68

Post by me_again »

rossdavidh wrote: post #57

It should be said, there's all kinds of situations where it makes sense to compare apples and oranges. You could compare their nutrition, to see which you should eat. You could compare their price, to see which you should buy. As long as you're aware that you're comparing two things that aren't identical (and you always are), it's often perfectly valid to compare apples and oranges. Just don't claim they're both appl…

I have to wonder whether you read the article. Your comment is technically correct but doesn't address the point that it is making: that we are not counting the apples and oranges in comparable ways.

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#69

Post by HPsquared »

Mary-Jane wrote: post #58
ceejayoz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SARS-CoV-2 is not airborne. https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/modes-of-t... > In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported. Some animals can get it, but don't appear to be a major source of transmission to humans. The pipes thing is unconfirmed and that's in one special case of broken plumbing. https://cph.temple.edu/about/news-events/news/can-coronaviru...

So what's the point of wearing masks then?

Like in Pulp Fiction?

Re: Comparing Covid-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is Like Comparing Apples to Oranges

#70

Post by ben7799 »

One of my takeaways from his article is it sounds like he never actually tests his mortally ill patients to see if they have influenza.

Sounds like he is misleading everyone as bad as the CDC.

I had a bad "flu-like" illness in February and they diagnosed me over the phone and never tested me.

Could have been Covid, could have been the flu, could have been neither.

Even if we're not testing everyone for Covid-19 they're clearly taking it more seriously than flu.

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