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Ask HN: I’m already fluent in English. How can I improve further?

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Re: Ask HN: I’m already fluent in English. How can I improve further?

#91
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You likely read/write English better than a native English speaker already. Kinda by definition this can't be correct. English is defined by what the native speakers speak. It might be that sometimes how they say things doesn't match up to how you were taught was correct, but it is likely to be correct for their dialect.

>> English is defined by what the native speakers speak. What about regional accents? For a non native speaker of English, understanding English as spoken in Scotland is a challenge. And I heard people born in UK complaining they had sometimes difficulties with American English (for example with real life/social things). This without speaking of people from India who speak an English which is slightly different from…

I imagine there is some blurring between what's an accent and what's a dialect, especially with your Scotland example. And to break it down further, as a native English speaker I can understand people in Edinburgh just fine, but Glaswegians are a mystery to me.

Your own native language probably has similar things - I know with Dutch, someone from one region can struggle to understand people from another region if they're speaking in their own dialect.

Re: Ask HN: I’m already fluent in English. How can I improve further?

#93
As children (native speakers), we were aided in learning to read by reading the Book of Mormon aloud together as a family (taking turns, helping the younger ones). I think it helped and familiarized us with not just one kind of English that we were used to, but broadened us significantly (As the King James Bible might, but the Book of Mormon seems to be in a style slightly older.)

It's available freely online at https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm?la... or https://www.comeuntochrist.org/requests/free-book-of-mormon . (I have more info at my web site, linked to my profile; feedback or questions there are welcome.)

Re: Ask HN: I’m already fluent in English. How can I improve further?

#94
Here are three things you can usefully try. Watch more movies in English with the subtitles off. Do "Picture Description" with an articulate english speaker (you both describe a given picture to each other). If your pronunciation isn't perfect really work on that with a coach.

Re: Ask HN: I’m already fluent in English. How can I improve further?

#95
post #33

> The only option I could think of is living in an English speaking country, but that currently not an option. Speaking from personal experience, I think all this will do is change your speech patterns and modulate your accent ever so slightly. You likely read/write English better than a native English speaker already. Some of the language/grammar I've encountered from my English colleagues in both formal and informa…

> You likely read/write English better than a native English speaker already. Kinda by definition this can't be correct. English is defined by what the native speakers speak. It might be that sometimes how they say things doesn't match up to how you were taught was correct, but it is likely to be correct for their dialect.

GP was talking about reading and writing, but you're talking about speaking, for some reason.

OP may very well have better-than-average spelling. To quote Harvey Pekar, "average is dumb!".

https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5ixdsF2111qz6f4bo1_400.j...

Re: Ask HN: I’m already fluent in English. How can I improve further?

#98

Joseph Conrad is considered one the greats of English literature, yet his sentence structure and flow is strongly influenced by his native Polish. Would have he been a better writer if he had worked to eliminate this obvious influence on form? I highly doubt it. At a certain point, you have achieved native fluency. From there, what you do with grammar and flow is up to you- the rules are not cast in stone. Borrow wha…

French too. He spent a bit of time working for French ships prior to moving to British ones. English was actually his third language, amazingly enough, which just further solidifies your point.

On 13 October 1874 Bobrowski sent the sixteen-year-old to Marseilles, France, for a planned career at sea.[15]:44–46 Though Conrad had not completed secondary school, his accomplishments included fluency in French (with a correct accent), some knowledge of Latin, German and Greek...

Re: Ask HN: I’m already fluent in English. How can I improve further?

#99
post #75

Hi Mantanrubin, I am an English teacher to foreign students and have a few at your level of fluency. With these students I usually do custom classes using content from literature, poetry and current affairs, mainly to get them using advanced vocabulary and grammar, and then applying it to their own lives so that they can discuss topics in detail in a variety of ways. Making sure to know when to use colourful language…

What are some ways you get people to use more complex structures and phrasing? I'm a native English speaker learning Spanish and I struggle to get beyond small talk when talking to native Spanish speakers

Some ideas would be to listen for, or create your own, long sentences with multiple clauses (even if shorter sentences would be easier. Also by speaking to different age groups, for example older generations tend to have many colourful expressions that are not commonly used anymore. Apart from that, if you wanted to get very complex you could ask someone to explain a difficult subject matter to you, something they might have expertise in, e.g. something scientific, their heritage, their thoughts on politics etc. Anything that forces multiple clauses and deep consideration and revision of ideas.

In a very basic way, with my less fluent students I continually ask then to explain their thinking behind an opinion... Why, why, why

And of course including more advanced material than their level dictates, to push them harder and learn faster.

Hope that helps somewhat!

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