Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education • Hacker News Board

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#301

Post by Engineer2Throw » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:36 PM UTC

macinjosh wrote: post #43

chadash wrote: post #25

I think it's time to decouple education from all of the other things tied to colleges. When I studied abroad in Australia, things like the gym or meal plans were available, but not "bundled in" to your tuition. The idea of tying competitive sports teams to a university would be laughable. We need to remove all of the "excess" stuff from higher education and get back to the core of education and research. Sure, things…

This is essential. The state university my partner attended and worked at became, over the years, more similar to a theme park or all-inclusive resort than an educational institution. They were involved in everything from student banking, fast-food franchises, high-end gyms, suites instead of dorms, and on it went. Not saying these things have no place, just that it shouldn't be part of the university.

You don't need to use them. I never paid for any of these and I graduated debt free

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#302

Post by non-entity » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:37 PM UTC

I started looking st going back to school starting around mid last year. I picked up my research again in the past month.

All I've done is manage to make myself so much more cynical. Everything I read and learned made it seem like college is nothing more than a pay to play game. I'm not andti-education or anti-intellectual, but I sure as hell do not support whatever the hell is going on in US higher education. I've been tempted to write aboutit, but my particular circumstances are rather unique and it would just come off as an angry rant.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#303

Post by ska » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:37 PM UTC

N1H1L wrote: post #253

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of credible online degree programs has exploded in recent years. Could you supply some examples? I know of Western Governors University, but it only has limited majors. In particular, do you know of any online degree programs in materials science?

Not really. There is an online MS in Computers Science from Georgia Tech, that's really well regarded and will cost you approximately $8,000 for the whole degree. A lot of materials science is highly experimental, so it's not super easy to teach advanced skills. I went to a top 10 materials science school for my PhD, and the absolute vast majority of what I learnt was self-taught. However there is a caveat - I self-l…

There is also a lot of value in the conversations you have with other students and faculty something that is really hard to reproduce remotely. It's also something where quality matters, I suspect.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#304

Post by ericmcer » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

tharne wrote: post #153

gwd wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He had some massive college bills too and i didnt understand how those worked, but you cant get rid of them like you can a car loan. This is the thing that is really the most shameful and outrageous thing about the US system. Our entire K-12 educational system and our culture is set up to paint a college degree as a ticket to "the good life". Then an 18-year-old, potentially with parents who aren't great at math bu…

> There's a reason many ancient religions forbid loaning money at interest entirely; It's sad that most cultures understood the danger and fragility that debt brings, and yet we've all somehow how forgotten it. We even have terms like "good debt".

buy house, start new business, buy equipment for existing business = good debt. Lifted $40k truck that you get with 0 down = bad debt.

Unfortunately our culture and multiple industries strongly push people towards bad debt.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#305

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #215

jedberg wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of us should be regularly lobbying our lawmakers to make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, just like any other loan. The reason they aren't dischargeable is because what bank in their right mind would give a loan to an 18 year old with no collateral? They only guarantee they get that it will be paid back is the fact that it can't be discharged. Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be disc…

> Student loans would dry up overnight if they could be discharged at bankruptcy. There were student loans before 1976, when they became non-dischargeable.

[deleted]

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#306

Post by mrj » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:38 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #122

runawaybottle wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how 15K+ in tuition a year is acceptable. No sympathy here for the college industry.

> I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how 15K+ in tuition a year is acceptable. I believe people who support such things think as follows: 1. $15k a year tuition for 4 years is a great deal if it turns you into a banker or programmer with a $150,000 a year salary and a 40-year career. Indeed, it would be unjust for a garbage man's taxes to be paying for a stockbroker's education. 2. Majoring in poetry migh…

> Indeed, it would be unjust for a garbage man's taxes to be paying for a stockbroker's education.

Education and improving society floats all boats, just as the garbage man is dependent on people generating trash. Stocks fund companies that employ people who generate trash. That was a very narrow, short-sighted analysis of tax policy.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#307

Post by salawat » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #175

brownbat wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of us should be regularly lobbying our lawmakers to make student loans dischargeable by bankruptcy, I thought so too. This always made me so angry. Last time I posted a rant about that here someone urged me to read the REPAYE Act, and it completely changed my mind. Under REPAYE, students get income based repayment, even down to $0 payments if you're anywhere near poverty level. After a certain number of years o…

Be aware REPAYE can be voided if your loan is resold (which you have no control over) and any missed payments or extra payments or any changes to your program (ie, if you apply for lower interest, your REPAYE is reset).... this has occured to people who go through the public service path.

Personally, this right here is the crux of the problem. Debts should not be resaleable. Loans are supposed to be about risk-sharing first, profit-taking second.

However, seeing as that will never happen I would settle for no resale without a meeting of seller, buyer, and borrower, with right of refusal of transfer of service by the borrower. to ensure that any changes/terms associated with the initial debt contract are properly transferred and honored; and no resets of timers as long as your account is in good standing. I.e. your debt holder selling your balance should still qualify as the same fundamental debt you originally entered into.

I don't particularly give a damn if that ruins/misses the point of securitization.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#308

Post by vkou » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

gwd wrote: post #113

nimbius wrote: post #64

Disclosure: i never went to college, I went to a trade school. Colleges really only started scaring the heck out of me when I started enjoying my career. After spending a day wrenching in a garage, we'd hit miller time and head down to the Soapbox Bar and Grill. Over the span of a month or two ordering buckets and shooting pool I learned our bartender Javon had a masters in biology and his fiancee Cortisha who bussed…

> He had some massive college bills too and i didnt understand how those worked, but you cant get rid of them like you can a car loan. This is the thing that is really the most shameful and outrageous thing about the US system. Our entire K-12 educational system and our culture is set up to paint a college degree as a ticket to "the good life". Then an 18-year-old, potentially with parents who aren't great at math bu…

> This is the thing that is really the most shameful and outrageous thing about the US system. Our entire K-12 educational system and our culture is set up to paint a college degree as a ticket to "the good life".

That's because it is a ticket to the good life if you are of average intelligence, average ability, average connections, and average parents. Or, more specifically, it is a ticket to a less bad life.

Not everyone can go into trades. Not everyone should go into trades. If you are an average person, and you're not working trades, and you don't have a college degree, you're going to be capped out at waiting tables and flipping burgers.

At least these masters-degree holders can apply for crappy low-end office jobs. You actually get evenings and weekends off with most of those, and you're unlikely to get a chef screaming at you while you're holding a pot of hot oil.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#309

Post by lallysingh » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

take_a_breath wrote: post #269

0xffff2 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that bad? Humanities departments are already shrinking without any changes because there's just no demand. It doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me that if you are determined to get a degree in philosophy, which has virtually no job prospects outside of teaching the next generation of philosophy students, you have to go do that at one of a handful of schools that carve out a niche for themselves with a philosop…

==philosophy, which has virtually no job prospects outside of teaching the next generation of philosophy students== Is this true? It seems some tech companies disagree: CA Technologies [1], Y Combinator [2], Google [3]. Is it possible that you are not well versed in what philosophy majors actually study and how well that might translate to a working environment? [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/16/tech-talent-gap-loo…

I thought Philosophy was essentially pre-law.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#310

Post by N1H1L » Thu, Apr 30, 2020, 6:41 PM UTC

ska wrote: post #303

N1H1L wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There is an online MS in Computers Science from Georgia Tech, that's really well regarded and will cost you approximately $8,000 for the whole degree. A lot of materials science is highly experimental, so it's not super easy to teach advanced skills. I went to a top 10 materials science school for my PhD, and the absolute vast majority of what I learnt was self-taught. However there is a caveat - I self-l…

There is also a lot of value in the conversations you have with other students and faculty something that is really hard to reproduce remotely. It's also something where quality matters, I suspect.

Highly true. You learn a lot through osmosis, by interacting with smart peers (faculty/other PhDs) and that is invaluable.