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Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

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Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#301

Post by speby »

joeyb164843 wrote: post #279
noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I'm 38. I know 40 seems to be the cut off, but in the Boston area no problems finding a job. I will say that I interview devs at my current position. I have noticed that a lot of the older people who come in and have years and years of experience at one place don't seem to have the breadth of knowledge we are looking for. For example, recently before the lockdown I interviewed a guy with over 20 years experience, mos…

This.

I have also interviewed a handful of people that had 20, 30 years of experience building software. In some cases, they had resumes pages long dating back into the late 80s. One tip I would stress to anyone who has been doing software engineering that long? Don't list all of the history you've ever had. Go back maybe 10 years. If you're worried someone might miss something you built from 15 years ago, just put "more job experience history available upon request" or something like that. The simple truth is having built something in Delphi in the 90s just isn't going to 'help' you working with today's frameworks, even though the underlying core software engineering skills will almost certainly be relevant regardless of language, toolset, or framework du jour.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#302

Post by Joeri »

collyw wrote: post #184
noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I have noticed that I was the 10x developer - when I was working on a system that I designed an built. Now I am fixing someone else code and he gets 10 times more done than me. Is that because he is smarter than me and get more done, or because he is worse than me and writes code that is obscure for someone else to understand quickly? Obviously its a subjective question, but volume of features completed isn't the onl…

IMHO you have to measure productivity with debugging time included. If you’re fixing the bugs in someone else’s code, the only way to measure productivity is to measure the both of you as a whole.

For me the real 10x skill is knowing when to write code and when not to. Too many programmers code their way out of a problem, instead of reconsidering the problem in a way that they can repurpose something that already exists.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#303

Post by arvinsim »

trcollinson wrote: post #260
dkdk8283 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m over the hill, expensive, and want to spend more time with family vs work. Shouldn’t minimize the reality of getting old.

I can implement streaming architectures using the latest technologies that can handle throughputs of TB per hour. I can handle the architecture, security, infrastructure as code, and monitoring, as well as the development. I can also help with price vs feature analysis. I have demonstrable experience in doing so, with happy references. I can do it much faster and more successfully than a recent college grad. Shouldn'…

How does one get experience architecting stuff when most roles usually require experience?

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#304

Post by mm89 »

overgard wrote: post #159
cyrialize wrote: post #103

I've been a developer for about 3 years now. This is probably my own fault, but I feel pressured to be constantly doing something towards programming. I feel like I should either be reading a book or starting a project. I have 10+ programming books where I just finished reading one of them and I have way more unfinished projects than I could count. It's reassuring to see the push-back against the 10x developer idea,…

I don't think it's so much about practicing outside of work hours, it's more about being mindful about how you're going about what you're doing and evolving it to make more sense. If there's a trait I notice in mediocre developers it's more just that they have no interest in examining their own work habits. Its the guy that always reaches for the menu bar instead of learning keyboard shortcuts, or the guy that refuse…

> Its the guy that always reaches for the menu bar instead of learning keyboard shortcuts

I think judging someone based on their computer habits like being a command-line guy versus a GUI guy might be a risky thing. I'm a command-line guy through and through, but my newest boss comes from a different background and is very GUI-focused, and I think it would be easy to assume he's mediocre based on his choice of tools and such, but the results are more what matters.

That said, he seems like a pretty stubborn guy and I've definitely seen some warning signs on being resistant to change.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#305

Post by _ah »

noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

The best developers only have 10 years experience.

10 years is enough to understand software, process, and the rest at a deep level. You may have expertise in a particular area. You know pretty much all the things that are available to know.

After 10 years, the previous experience becomes irrelevant and "drops off". The languages you learned? Gone. The APIs and weird hardware limitations? Irrelevant. Nothing beyond 10 years matters.

One career mode is to shift to management. Or move to a technical leadership role where durable interpersonal relationships matter. The other career mode is to keep learning. Learn the new stack, the new language, the new whatever. Keep learning.

I think that some developers hit trouble around 40 because they spent their first 10 years learning, then realized that they knew everything and coasted for 5-7 more, and then show up at 40 years old completely out of touch. Imagine a hiring manager considering someone with only 2 years of relevant experience (and a demonstrated unwillingness to learn), who is nevertheless convinced that he is super-senior and demanding compensation to match. That's the reality.

I think that much of what we call ageism is just the natural consequences of a fixed mindset. Make every 10 years shine. "What have you done for me lately?"

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#306

Post by mm89 »

alcover wrote: post #296

> front end [..] consider something like Phoenix install = install Erlang + install Elixir + install Phoenix Well.. I'll stick to Node + vanilla JS

Installing something is easy, learning how to write Elixir/Phoenix/maybe Erlang is the hard part.

Don't ever let "installation" prevent you from trying something, on Mac it's literally "brew install elixir" followed by a command to install phoenix framework.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#307

Post by jiveturkey »

faizshah wrote: post #19
stefanchrobot wrote: post #4

Quite surprising take on the languages. > When to use Python or Ruby > Python and Ruby seem to me to be pretty similar in that they’re scripting languages and dynamically typed and seemed like the greatest thing in the 00’s. You use them when speed is more important than legibility or debugging. I'd say you pick them when productivity and time to market is important. I personally find dynamic languages far more legib…

People overrate the elegance and readability of languages. You can write elegant and inelegant Java. I've seen python code that is totally unmaintainable and python code that's some of the most elegant out there. You can find Rails code that is some of the most indecipherable spaghetti out there despite Ruby being such an elegant language (the project had Fat Controllers, Fat Views and Fat Stored Procedures...yikes).…

> People overrate the elegance and readability of languages. You can write elegant and inelegant Java.

It's not what you can write, it's what the next guy can write.

You can write elegant Perl. But the language isn't suited to that. The next guy is going to use a more typical write-only style of Perl. Extreme example, but you take my point.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#308

Post by bdcravens »

noad wrote: post #21

I used to get called a 10x developer, I was also called a rockstar and a ninja and a 100x dev and every other compliment that was hip. Then I hit 30. That type of talk stopped. Then I hit 40. Now I will not be considered for any entry level, mid level, or senior level software dev job anywhere in the United States, despite being very desperate and willing to relocate for anything. Doesn't matter. Too old. I'm suppose…

I'm not on the market, and haven't been for years, but at 43, I haven't seen what you're talking about in terms of hiring.

I can't speak for you of course, but I've known people who at one point couldn't keep the recruiters away who 15 years later can't get a call back, based on not keeping up with the industry.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#309

Post by war1025 »

imron wrote: post #164

Rules of Thumb for a 1x Developer During work hours stay away from: * HN * Facebook * Twitter * Reddit * Any other thing constantly distracting you and taking away your attention from your job Congratulations, you are now 3-10x developer.

> Congratulations, you are now 3-10x developer.

Congratulations. You are still getting paid the same.

Boosts in productivity need to come with boosts in pay, otherwise the logical thing to do is to scale back your effort to a point where the amount you get done matches the amount you get paid for.

Re: Rules of thumb for a 1x developer

#310

Post by azangru »

jonfw wrote: post #244
falcolas wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the deluge of recruiter spam on LinkedIn hasn't slowed down yet Recruiters spamming you is not a correlative metric for companies hiring you. SV is worse than other locations, but even the midwest company I work for (I'm also over 40) much prefers to hire people straight out of college. They're cheaper, willing to work longer hours, and easily molded into an image the company wants. EDIT: To provide a small anecdot…

> They're cheaper, willing to work longer hours So now we've hit the real root of the problem. If you expect significantly more money than competitors in your role- than ageism may not be why it's getting harder to find jobs. It isn't 'ageist' to disagree on the value of prior experience.

> If you expect significantly more money than competitors in your role

Out of curiosity - don't companies take a pass on older candidates because they expect them to ask for a higher salary than the younger ones?

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