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Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

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Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#91
post #10

My kid will be making his college choice in the coming year. As such, he's getting mail from colleges pretty much every day. The mailer from Vanderbilt really struck me as to the wrongheaded thinking of university leaders. On one side was this amazing blurb: "Vanderbilt financial aid packages DO NOT INCLUDE LOANS. IT'S FREE MONEY....65% of Vanderbilt students received some type of FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE" Tell me why co…

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Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#92
One of the "hard choices" some colleges are making is removing the requirement for SAT or ACT tests for admission. While a case can be made against certain types of standardized tests, will their admission criteria be made more rigorous in other areas to compensate? Lowering the bar for incoming students could end up reducing both the educational experience at the college and eventually its reputation, making them even more desperate for unqualified students in the future, ad infinitum until it gets bailed out or goes bankrupt.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#93
post #64

Disclosure: i never went to college, I went to a trade school. Colleges really only started scaring the heck out of me when I started enjoying my career. After spending a day wrenching in a garage, we'd hit miller time and head down to the Soapbox Bar and Grill. Over the span of a month or two ordering buckets and shooting pool I learned our bartender Javon had a masters in biology and his fiancee Cortisha who bussed…

It's hard to pick an economically viable major. There are lots of difficult fields to study that just don't pay well due to competition. People tend to think Science = STEM = Guaranteed Job, but that is not the case. Lots of sciences don't make much money, especially the ones driven by passion. Others are highly geographically dependent, so mining engineers might have a median salary of $80k after five years, but 80% of those people live in a handful of rural states.

Also, a lot can change in the four to seven years it takes to complete school. A recession can drive a large of people into "safe" majors, like accounting, making it more difficult for new graduates to onboard. And other fields can shrink or disappear almost entirely within that time period.

That being said, these people didn't have to settle for serving drinks in a bar. They could have searched employment in tangentially-related fields or learned some more technical skills. They could have also relocated. Maybe those were not options for whatever reason, but in general, those are things successful people do. Because the job market is going to change wildly during the 40+ years you'll be employed.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#94

The culture of higher education isn't what it used to be. The advancement of knowledge is now secondary to economic growth in a university. Students begin as customers and turn into products by graduation. Universities used to be gatekeepers to better economic opportunities but those opportunities have disappeared. This is a relatively recent phenomenon in that Baby Boomers don't have the student loan obligations tha…

I'm sorry, but how could someone not have agreed with your statement? Online learning is a major threat to college for many of those reasons.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#95
post #20

This is where the continental european model of the university is so much better than the anglo-american one. Universities should be about coursework and research, that's it. Dorms, dining halls, gyms, social clubs, sports etc. are not part of the university's mission

I went to university in Germany (ME, Stuttgart) my kids are attending public universities in Oregon. I get exactly what you're saying, when I walk across the OSU campus I'm amazed at how beautiful everything is made for the students life. THe flipside is that many labs are underequipped. We have to face the fact that colleges in the US are providing lifestyle at least as much as education. However, when kids and parents pick colleges they decide it's worth it, otherwise everyone would be going to community colleges.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#96
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The job can be done better for much less. First and foremost, the lecture part of education is extremely inefficient. I know "watch the video" just doesn't work for some people, but charging for a live rendition of a repeated script, and then not valuing the person who watched the same recording equally, is absurd. Education needs to acknowledge a couple things. 1) Theres probably a "best" lecture or lecturer out th…

I've spent a fair amount of time and energy working and researching in this area. I'd agree with most of what you are saying. To point #1 I worked on a project that had almost the exact same design you mention (collaborate, git versioned edits of learning modules, etc.) - the biggest problem is the mounds and mounds of red tape and regulation that stifle any truly innovative solution. There are some movements for hig…

with regard to 2, thats why i used the word flip. i dont think my 1 or 2 are that unique, a lot of it is dreaming of a khan+git+wikipedia.

with regard to 3, i think the larger question is, is that what is best for society? to create elite clubs based on who you know vs merit, capability, output volume etc.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#97
post #4
post #2

I wish I could be more sympathetic to the college industrial complex, but they've been treat us poorly for years. Yes, I know it's our fault for demanding gold plated educational experiences and then going into crazy debt to finance it. But who wants to blame himself/herself? The job can be done better for much less. Indeed, it used to be much cheaper in the past when the dorms weren't so fancy and there were a bazil…

Agreed, sadly the demand is still there. It's so easy to get huge loans and as a result, there is no downward pressure on price. My tiny college had 5 full-time staff for "residence life", plus a dean of that department. Totally unnecessary.

My anctedot... My daughter at college has three academic advisors; a general advisor, honors advisor, and her chosen major advisor. Geeesh.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#98
I would like to see a reckoning for the modern college and university model. They have extremely bloated administrative costs due to the moral hazards of public funding, they have accumulated ideologically biased fields that should never have been legitimized (https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studi...), they are increasingly becoming political monocultures that are hostile to any diversity of thought, and they seem archaic when their primary function these days is not to teach (especially at large, well endowed, research universities) but to certify. That is, people mostly attend college to leverage their names as a proxy for economic value on a resume. Could they largely be replaced with testing centers and more focused vocational schools?

All that said, maybe what we need is simply increased competition. Rather than a few, large colleges that absorb lots of students and funding, we need a web of smaller universities that are given greater consideration (and support?) than they are today. However, the current conditions might starve out the smallest colleges or trade schools, and only amplify the hegemony of large colleges.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#99
Shuttered colleges should be turned into hubs for remote knowledge workers. The worst part of remote work is that it's hard to build a community without an office; college campuses are designed around community-building, with great shared spaces, gyms, etc. They also tend to be in beautiful places that are reasonably affordable, at least compared to the expensive coastal cities where many knowledge workers live.

The current financial precarity of colleges and the massive increase in full-time remote workers have created a very interesting set of pre-conditions. If these conditions persist a while past the distancing phase of the virus, the environment could be uniquely perfect for this shift to take place.

Re: Colleges at the breaking point, forcing ‘hard choices’ about education

#100
post #64

Disclosure: i never went to college, I went to a trade school. Colleges really only started scaring the heck out of me when I started enjoying my career. After spending a day wrenching in a garage, we'd hit miller time and head down to the Soapbox Bar and Grill. Over the span of a month or two ordering buckets and shooting pool I learned our bartender Javon had a masters in biology and his fiancee Cortisha who bussed…

our bartender Javon had a masters in biology That's de-risking, de-skilling and outsourcing. Back then, in the last century, the US and Europe had a functioning chemical industry. Unfortunately, information technology took off, and investment banking discovered that returns are better with Facebook than in Pharma, consequently that's where the jobs are now. Also, mergers & acquisitions took off in the same time. Why…

You don't have to create and improve in a world you have little to no competition with high barrier to entry established. You can keep repackaging the same things without risk and work on perceptive value of people.

Why innovate and create when I can live like a king just playing our economic, governmental, and social systems like a fiddle? We're not quite that bad yet but we're already headed down the path in that direction.

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