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Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

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Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#91

Post by dan-robertson »

amelius wrote: post #87
TeMPOraL wrote: post #42

I find myself agreeing with the rejection. As much as I dislike the ridiculous amount of emojis in Unicode, and their increasingly widespread use, they do fit plain text communication, whereas an "external link" symbol does not. My heuristic is something I'll call SMS sniff test : would it make sense to type that symbol into a text message? If it wouldn't, then it doesn't belong in Unicode. "External link" symbol tel…

But a dagger serves a similar purpose.

I don’t think it does. On HN you can’t have links with custom text so an external link symbol would be pointless but seeing a dagger or [1] is reasonable. Similarly I don’t think seeing it in an SMS is unimaginable so by the standard of the parent comment I don’t think a dagger is the same as an external link symbol.

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#92

Post by Aeolun »

goto11 wrote: post #61
TeMPOraL wrote: post #42

I find myself agreeing with the rejection. As much as I dislike the ridiculous amount of emojis in Unicode, and their increasingly widespread use, they do fit plain text communication, whereas an "external link" symbol does not. My heuristic is something I'll call SMS sniff test : would it make sense to type that symbol into a text message? If it wouldn't, then it doesn't belong in Unicode. "External link" symbol tel…

Yeah a lot of arguments are of the form "when Unicode can include the pile-of-poop-emoji, surely it should include ". But the question is not if the icon is practical or silly, the question is if it makes sense as a Unicode character or should be handled at some other level like a GUI control or widget. Should GUI icons, widgets and controls be covered by Unicode? That is a can of worms. I understand the usefulness o…

Unicode is full of whole blocks of weird sets of lines and borders. As far as I’m concerned adding the symbol just to make it easier to style links makes total sense.

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#93

Post by dan-robertson »

ant6n wrote: post #71
TeMPOraL wrote: post #42

I find myself agreeing with the rejection. As much as I dislike the ridiculous amount of emojis in Unicode, and their increasingly widespread use, they do fit plain text communication, whereas an "external link" symbol does not. My heuristic is something I'll call SMS sniff test : would it make sense to type that symbol into a text message? If it wouldn't, then it doesn't belong in Unicode. "External link" symbol tel…

Plausible sms: „Plz send me the . “

I think you’re missing the ZWJ

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#95

Post by michaelt »

DagAgren wrote: post #80
joatmon-snoo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This made me stop and think because I've never really wondered about what belongs and doesn't belong in Unicode, and then I went looking at what strange corners Unicode has and wow the "Miscellaneous Technical" code block is such a strange thing. * It has APL symbols (checking the Wiki article on APL syntax and the APL standard, it seems that APL programs can be represented entirely in Unicode - which makes sense, bu…

The backspace symbol makes perfect sense. You may very well want to say "Press ⌫ to delete the selected object".

I'm not opposed to the backspace symbol, but by that logic you could include anything in unicode as anything could a symbol you'd like to refer to.

I mean, you might want to say "External links can be identified by their □ marker" or "The Windows key is marked □ and can be found to the left of the space bar"

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#96

Post by dan-robertson »

I think an issue with the arguments here is that each side is making its arguments based around quite different standards. Unicode have two standards for inclusion of symbols, one for adding new symbols and one for merging in characters from other character sets.

The rejection is based on the first standard for adding new characters.

The arguments against it seem to be based on taking the second standard as precedent. But I think as far as the Unicode committees are concerned, arguments based on the precedent of whatever random crap was grandfathered in from preexisting character sets do not apply to characters that are not from preexisting character sets. I think any argument that relies on “you already allow all this other random crap” must also argue that this symbol exists in some other character set which ought to be merged into Unicode, or that the standard for new characters should be more precedent-based/different, but I don’t see any such arguments other than some implied “common sense guess as to how one expects Unicode to work”

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#97

Post by pfranz »

chrisseaton wrote: post #78

Why do you need to know that a link is an external link?

I see it often in intranets, wikis, and PDF documentation. It's an additional context clue that you're leaving a closed website. The most egregious examples give you a separate click-through screen when leaving the website. Government web pages seem to do this the most.

It would be nice if we could all use a standard icon or some other constant UI element--like a single underline for internal references and double underline for external? I imagine unique colors would be too difficult to standardize.

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#98

Post by DagAgren »

amelius wrote: post #85
DagAgren wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The backspace symbol makes perfect sense. You may very well want to say "Press ⌫ to delete the selected object".

But you may also say "Next to the link you will see [EXTERNAL LINK] which indicates that the link leads to another website."

I guess that is a good point, but I guess that the backspace symbol gets a bit of a free ride by literally being on your keyboard.

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#99

Post by squiggleblaz »

etrabroline wrote: post #39
andai wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the significance of clap?

I'm mocking the overuse of the clapping hands emoji. Here is the first result from Bing for the search "clap emoji overuse": https://www.reddit.com/r/justlegbeardthings/comments/6rl6mu/... Which is something no one asked for, but Unicode gave us anyway and now everyone is annoyed by.

Maybe a few people on twitter? I've never seen it elsewhere and I barely use twitter so saying "everyone" is an exaggeration. Also, if everyone were annoyed by it, then it wouldn't be overused any more almost by definition.

Re: Why isn't the external link symbol in Unicode? (2018)

#100

Post by bmn__ »

joatmon-snoo wrote: post #67
TeMPOraL wrote: post #42

I find myself agreeing with the rejection. As much as I dislike the ridiculous amount of emojis in Unicode, and their increasingly widespread use, they do fit plain text communication, whereas an "external link" symbol does not. My heuristic is something I'll call SMS sniff test : would it make sense to type that symbol into a text message? If it wouldn't, then it doesn't belong in Unicode. "External link" symbol tel…

This made me stop and think because I've never really wondered about what belongs and doesn't belong in Unicode, and then I went looking at what strange corners Unicode has and wow the "Miscellaneous Technical" code block is such a strange thing. * It has APL symbols (checking the Wiki article on APL syntax and the APL standard, it seems that APL programs can be represented entirely in Unicode - which makes sense, bu…

> what belongs and doesn't belong in Unicode

That's simple. The justification for most characters, including the exemplary one you mentioned, is that they were already encoded in some other repertoire. The consortium's task is to collect and unify them.

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