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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#681

Post by joshuamorton »

twomoretime wrote: post #680
joshuamorton wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's no secret Google leans left. It's no secret that protestors of the lockdown lean right. You don't see a conflict of interest here? No. I'd see a conflict of interest if this were a political issue. But it's not. Making something political by spouting a bunch of lies until people believe them doesn't change the science. >What if the WHO and CDC are in conflict? But they're not. So we're well into the realm of i…

I don't think you understand that in a reality with limited information, it is impossible for humans to know objective truth. And further you underestimate the degree of uncertainty regarding lockdown measures. This uncertainty is an avenue for bias. I don't think you understand the dangers of giving a handful of people the power to censor and curate the material that reaches a majority of the eyes in the US. You'll…

It's equally impossible for humans to know objective truth if all information is presented with no way to determine authority. If I present you with all possible 25 word sentences containing "covid-19", you have all of the conceivable information at your fingertips, but you can't draw any conclusions.

But that's mostly beside the point. No one is preventing these two doctors from determining the truth. If they think they have a breakthrough, they can present it in a paper, to other experts, who are capable of analyzing it.

> I don't think you understand that in a reality with limited information, it is impossible for humans to know objective truth. And further you underestimate the degree of uncertainty regarding lockdown measures.

Conventional news is far worse than Google both in terms of the things and, at least currently, in terms of reach. I'd much prefer if Fox news presented actual experts on subjects, instead of political pundits or "Dr. Phil" when discussing COVID-19. I am not and have not taken any political side anywhere in this conversation. I've been on the side of scientific consensus. I don't expect that will change.

> As it happens, they are arguably in conflict today, as the WHO has praised Sweden's model which, in case you're not aware, is not a lockdown.

Let's talk when the WHO releases official guidance to end lockdowns. Until then you're just trying to create conflict where there isn't any.

> How can you even put faith in authority right now after so many nations, organizations, hospitals, the world over, totally failed in responding to or preparing for this pandemic?

Because I trust the institutions of government (and their access to experts) more than I trust hucksters on the internet. While I don't expert the average person to be able to discern an expert from a huckster on the internet, especially due to the actions of certain politicians.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#682

Post by shkkmo »

lchills098 wrote: post #679
Barrin92 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them? The fact that it is their platform. >Fauci can defend himself, Fauci is a 79 year old man busy working 20 hours a day trying to stop more people from dying, he doesn't have the time to debunk garbage on the internet. Youtube is completely within their rights to remove dangerous disinformation from their platform and I hope they take an agressive stance goi…

If that’s the case, then 99% of all videos on MSNBC’s YouTube channel should be removed for misinformation. All they do is lie constantly about everything and you don’t ever see a single video of theirs removed like the physician’s video. And that’s hilarious that you think Fauci is trying to help this countryDo you not realize that Fauci is the one who sent a $3,700,000 grant to the lab in Wuhan to continue testing…

> Do you not realize that Fauci is the one who sent a $3,700,000 grant to the lab in Wuhan to continue testing on this virus when our Dept of Homeland Security deemed it to much of a public health risk to keep testing on this virus in the US like Fauci and his team were doing under the Obama administration. If Fauci wouldn’t have outsourced the testing of this deadly contagious virus to China, maybe we wouldn’t be in this mess.

Do you not realize how confused and misinformed you are on this topic?

The 2014 ban was a ban of "Gain of Function" (GoF) research (i.e. research that deliberately makes a virus to virulent to study the possiblity for future mutations to cause an epidemic) on a number of diffurent corona and influenza viruses. It was not an overall ban on research into these viruses and was not specific to corona virus. [0]

The 3.7M grant was not given to the labs in Wuhan. It was provided to the EcoHealth Alliance, the president of which says that while they had collaborated with the lab in Wuhan on research funded by a past grant, none of the 3.7M grant money went to the labs in Wuhan. Sure, he may be lying, but I'd like to see some evidence to back up that claim. [1]

It is true that there isn't non-circumstantial evidence on if this covid outbreak started with a containment failure at a lab or jumped directly from bats (or possibly through an intermediate animal). However, the evidence against covid-19 being engineered (i.e. the result of GoF research) is more conclusive and getting stronger. [2]

When US officials visited the lab in 2018, they noted the importance of the research given the labs findings (which showed that transmission from bats was easier than previously though) and recommended that the US pay more attention and provide support to the labs in Wuhan to help improve the management and safety of the labs (which they found concerningly lacking). [3]

So, ironically, if the virus did escape from one of the Wuhan labs, it seems like our good way of reducing the risk of this mess would have been to provide funding and support for those labs when we were warned about the risks in 2018.

[0] https://www.nature.com/news/us-suspends-risky-disease-resear...

[1] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/27/trump-cuts-research...

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/17/covid-19-co...

[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-dep...

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#683

Post by pmarreck »

wesammikhail wrote: post #568
pmarreck wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the general public does not have the expertise to evaluate public health policy discussions and decisions But you're now asking people to trust experts, which in 2020 is apparently crazy-talk

ofc you shouldn´t trust experts wtf!!! Blindly trusting someone because they have a piece of paper on their wall? are you nuts? What is it with people and willingly accept argument from authority just because there is a PhD or MD next to the name? Make your arguments, present your data, and let us peel through it and see if all works out as it should or if it is all just a bunch of bullshit. I don´t give a fuck if yo…

> What is it with people and willingly accept argument from authority just because there is a PhD or MD next to the name?

Because this is how it worked for literally hundreds of years and it seemed to work just fine, and only NOW does it seem we have a problem

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#684

Post by kostko »

chaostheory wrote: post #678
gccxsse wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dangerous disinformation What does this even mean?? Have we forgotten the importance of free speech?

It's called private property. YouTube can do what it wants on its private platform. It's not a monopoly. There are other video platforms.

Same goes for news you see over TV, it does not have to be true. Its their platform. How can you make an informed decision is all you’re being told is manufactured truth?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#685

Post by chaostheory »

kostko wrote: post #684
chaostheory wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called private property. YouTube can do what it wants on its private platform. It's not a monopoly. There are other video platforms.

Same goes for news you see over TV, it does not have to be true. Its their platform. How can you make an informed decision is all you’re being told is manufactured truth?

You read and watch the media that gives you the data you need. Ignore the others once you can verify the information. Wash, rinse and repeat. It’s supposed to be a free market. There’s no guarantee that government mandates will make the data any better

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#686

Post by wesammikhail »

pmarreck wrote: post #683
wesammikhail wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ofc you shouldn´t trust experts wtf!!! Blindly trusting someone because they have a piece of paper on their wall? are you nuts? What is it with people and willingly accept argument from authority just because there is a PhD or MD next to the name? Make your arguments, present your data, and let us peel through it and see if all works out as it should or if it is all just a bunch of bullshit. I don´t give a fuck if yo…

> What is it with people and willingly accept argument from authority just because there is a PhD or MD next to the name? Because this is how it worked for literally hundreds of years and it seemed to work just fine, and only NOW does it seem we have a problem

That´s pure kaka. That´s how it has worked for the past 50 years at most and this revisionist history in favor of some high and mighty self-serving position is a no-go for me.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#687

Post by AnthonyMouse »

wvenable wrote: post #621
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with cheap. Anybody can register a domain name and buy a web server and buy a building to put it in and internet service to host it with and post all their videos and they'll get zero page views even after spending all of that money because nobody can find them. The thing YouTube has that isn't available to the average Joe isn't web servers, it's all the glue that comes from being a part of Googl…

> they'll get zero page views even after spending all of that money because nobody can find them. You might not be cheap anymore, now you're just lazy . It used to be that if you had something important to say you might actually have to climb out of the basement, walk to the church, and post your words to the door. The expectation that others should both host and promote your crazy ideas for free is the problem.

> It used to be that if you had something important to say you might actually have to climb out of the basement, walk to the church, and post your words to the door.

It's not 1950. Church attendance has been on the decline for decades. It's an audience of maybe a thousand in a country of over three hundred million. There is no lack of laziness that can scale in-person communication to compete with the internet.

But it's even more ridiculous to suggest going to meatspace meeting places to discuss a pandemic which is keeping everybody out of places like that.

> The expectation that others should both host and promote your crazy ideas for free is the problem.

The expectation exists because it's what they do for other ideas. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

If they want to charge money to all YouTube creators equally or shut down YouTube entirely and let it all drain out into other platforms then nobody's stopping them, but a duty of impartiality has to come with being that big.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#688

Post by vanniv »

chaostheory wrote: post #678
gccxsse wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dangerous disinformation What does this even mean?? Have we forgotten the importance of free speech?

It's called private property. YouTube can do what it wants on its private platform. It's not a monopoly. There are other video platforms.

That's why putting everyone under house arrest is so effective.

The left owns the online media, and they ban all non-left thought.

Meanwhile, if you try to speak in person, the cops come and beat you up.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#689

Post by wvenable »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #687
wvenable wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they'll get zero page views even after spending all of that money because nobody can find them. You might not be cheap anymore, now you're just lazy . It used to be that if you had something important to say you might actually have to climb out of the basement, walk to the church, and post your words to the door. The expectation that others should both host and promote your crazy ideas for free is the problem.

> It used to be that if you had something important to say you might actually have to climb out of the basement, walk to the church, and post your words to the door. It's not 1950. Church attendance has been on the decline for decades. It's an audience of maybe a thousand in a country of over three hundred million. There is no lack of laziness that can scale in-person communication to compete with the internet. But i…

> It's not 1950

I was referring to 1517, actually.

> There is no lack of laziness that can scale in-person communication to compete with the internet.

That's the problem. Ideas used to require effort to spread. You'd have to be the President of the United States to get an audience big enough to drink bleach but now you can get kids to eat Tide pods without any effort at all. All ideas are not equal and free has distorted the entirety of human discourse.

> Duty of impartiality

There is no way to be impartial. YouTube censors probably millions of videos every day for outright illegal content, for copyright infringement, for inappropiateness. It's what they have to do to keep the site alive. It may appear to be mostly uncurated but that's not true -- any uncurated site eventually falls apart.

Anyway, most people seem to making the other argument lately -- that sites like Facebook, and Twitter, and YouTube are so big that they have duty to stop the spread of propaganda, fake news, libel, and harmful material. What would you say to that?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#690

Post by techntoke »

downerending wrote: post #662
techntoke wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in order to have a business, you believe that you should have to cater to everyone regardless of what they do or say because otherwise you are censoring them?

I think that if you get a reputation for immoral behavior, even if it's legal, your business is going to eventually pay a price (and rightfully so).

Have you told that to Comcast?
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