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Tesla Q1 2020 Update

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Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#91

Post by markstos »

puranjay wrote: post #83
Touche wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't want a batshit crazy person running a company I invest in.

To be fairly honest, lots of extremely competent people hold some batshit insane opinions about a lot of pretty important things. I posit Steve Jobs and his alternative therapy beliefs: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4924574/

What did you want readers to get out of that link to support your argument that Steve Jobs therapy beliefs were batshit insane?

From the link:

"It is unknown whether Jobs’ outcomes would have been different if he had pursued surgery at the time of his diagnosis, or if had followed a specific chemotherapy protocol. And it is unknown how effective any of his acupuncture, botanical and dietary approaches may have been before or after his surgery."

Dr. McDougall concluded that "The overall consensus was, and still is, that Jobs acted selfishly, stupidly, and irresponsibly when he refused surgery in October of 2003, at the time of his original diagnosis. Based on the natural history of his disease, Jobs acted in none of these ways. The cancer had spread many years before his diagnosis, and was unstoppable by any means."

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/nov/jobs.htm

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#92

Post by ashtonkem »

xiphias2 wrote: post #20
chollida1 wrote: post #2

Since, things are slow, my notes.... Misc: - Fremont plant idle since March 23rd - raised 2.3B in February, which seems really well timed now - Musk venting with "FREE AMERICA NOW" tweet makes him seem almost crazy - can see why Elon is going crazy on twitter, he'd almost turned around Telsa and now they may be in the worst cash crunch of their long life - Shanghai Giga reopened on Feb 10th, showing the importance of…

- Will Elon stop with tweets that hurt Tesla? Appoint a CEO, or COO to run things to take pressure of Elon? I have read this from so many people for the last 5 years all the time. Sure, the tweets show that Elon wants faster growth, and frustrated, and I didn't like that tweet either, but if you want a conservative CEO, buy IBM or Oracle stocks, please leave Tesla alone.

False dichotomy alert.

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#93

Post by Thrymr »

xiphias2 wrote: post #20
chollida1 wrote: post #2

Since, things are slow, my notes.... Misc: - Fremont plant idle since March 23rd - raised 2.3B in February, which seems really well timed now - Musk venting with "FREE AMERICA NOW" tweet makes him seem almost crazy - can see why Elon is going crazy on twitter, he'd almost turned around Telsa and now they may be in the worst cash crunch of their long life - Shanghai Giga reopened on Feb 10th, showing the importance of…

- Will Elon stop with tweets that hurt Tesla? Appoint a CEO, or COO to run things to take pressure of Elon? I have read this from so many people for the last 5 years all the time. Sure, the tweets show that Elon wants faster growth, and frustrated, and I didn't like that tweet either, but if you want a conservative CEO, buy IBM or Oracle stocks, please leave Tesla alone.

He cost the company $40 million with a single tweet 2 years ago: https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#95

Post by gamblor956 »

mettamage wrote: post #59
Touche wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't want a batshit crazy person running a company I invest in.

I'm not the best in expressing this, but I believe to think like Elon Musk (except I'm lazy and not that bright), I think there are quite a few that think like Elon. Yes, I know how it sounds, but if you're obsessed about truth there's a chance you think like him as well. IMO Elon Musk is rational and also expressive. He thinks from first principles (aka how does the world really work?) and he communicates that way.…

He thinks from first principles (aka how does the world really work?) and he communicates that way.

Everyone does that. Most of us just aren't stupid until to think that this means we suddenly experts in fields we know nothing about, especially when the "first principles" Musk deals with are just simplified abstractions of very complicated subjects.

Or all we all forgetting that Musk has claimed that a substance which kills people will cure coronavirus (it doesn't), that children are immune (they're not), and that coronavirus is less deadly than the seasonal flu (it's not)?

Moreover, Musk has demonstrated time and time again that he refuses to use scientific methods in his "reasoning" from "first principles", since when confronted with evidence that he is wrong he triples down on his assertions and begins making personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with him.

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#96

Post by LunaSea »

megaman821 wrote: post #88
jonny_eh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people can't handle that Right, we can't handle a billionaire demanding that everyone risk their lives to boost his stock price. And since when are arguments derived from first principles delivered in 3 word all-caps tweets?

You think Elon Musk's motivation is greed? That people going back to work or not will greatly affect his lifestyle? Is there any nuance when it comes to Elon Musk, or only fan-boys and haters?

I haven't seen him announce that he would make Tesla or Space X a non-profit so it's gotta be at least a little bit about money.

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#97

Post by mettamage »

jonny_eh wrote: post #69
mettamage wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the best in expressing this, but I believe to think like Elon Musk (except I'm lazy and not that bright), I think there are quite a few that think like Elon. Yes, I know how it sounds, but if you're obsessed about truth there's a chance you think like him as well. IMO Elon Musk is rational and also expressive. He thinks from first principles (aka how does the world really work?) and he communicates that way.…

> Most people can't handle that Right, we can't handle a billionaire demanding that everyone risk their lives to boost his stock price. And since when are arguments derived from first principles delivered in 3 word all-caps tweets?

I don't get the first sentence fully. I guess it's a sarcastic remark about the 420 price, but I can't see how it "risks people their lives". Hmm... now that I think about it, 420... weed? I wonder if he made that as a suble joke, in any case. I do get your second point, let me go into that.

I have friends who have a lot of difficulty distinguishing expressiveness and rationality. I can't do that in a post.

The best way to see the difference: find a CS/psychologically-minded person that is capable of being rational but has a default state of being creative. Yep, kind of describing myself here (= easiest description to give). They're quite easy to spot:

- they have some creative thing they like (drawing, music, anything pertaining to multimedia)

- they are also capable of going from existential and psychedelic to rational and focused within one second

- they are capable of explaining why they act crazy when they do and tell you their emotional, rational perspective on it (on parties, for example, it has a lot of instrumental value).

Hangout with them for a year. And you'll see how expressiveness is mixed with rationality.

FYI the 3 word all-caps tweet is the expressive part of Elon.

Also, I could be wrong about all of this obviously, this is simply my current opinion about it, I thought quite a bit about it (also about my biases, can't rule them out) and I think I'm right but I've been proven wrong (and right) in beautiful ways before in my life. So I could be (horribly) wrong.

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#98

Post by blizkreeg »

xur17 wrote: post #54
save_ferris wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He might be more concerned about the sales prospects instead of operational expenses. Automakers are getting hit really hard by this pandemic, and they need a healthy economy to sell cars. Many economic forecasts are saying that a full recovery is 2-4 years away, although there are many different opinions.

Plus, the price of gas has gone down significantly, hurting one of the benefits of electric cars.

I don't believe the Tesla crowd bought theirs to save on gas anyway, so not sure if this is true.

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#99

Post by axguscbklp »

chollida1 wrote: post #2

Since, things are slow, my notes.... Misc: - Fremont plant idle since March 23rd - raised 2.3B in February, which seems really well timed now - Musk venting with "FREE AMERICA NOW" tweet makes him seem almost crazy - can see why Elon is going crazy on twitter, he'd almost turned around Telsa and now they may be in the worst cash crunch of their long life - Shanghai Giga reopened on Feb 10th, showing the importance of…

Musk might just be venting on Twitter, as another commenter has suggested, but one way or another these tweets might turn out to benefit him. From what I can tell based on both personal and online interactions, it seems to me that U.S. public sentiment has been shifting against the lockdowns recently - and not just among some fringe protester groups, but among all kinds of demographically and ideologically different groups. Musk's tweets might appeal to those people and make him more popular. I'm no fan of, for example, Musk's lies about self-driving technology being just around the corner. But say what you will about Musk, he has a powerful talent when it comes to publicity.

Re: Tesla Q1 2020 Update

#100

Post by ashtonkem »

tempsy wrote: post #72

I’m watching in disbelief at the stock market making a V shaped recovery. Nasdaq is only a few percentage points off it’s all time high. I guess don’t underestimate the American consumer even at a time of economic uncertainty? I don’t know how else to explain record sales from Tesla, Facebook, and Microsoft today.

Massive infusions of cash from Congress & the fed will do that for you. It’s far, far, far too early to draw conclusions about long term recovery.
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