Lufthansa: Where fuel surcharges don't match up with reality.
German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
131–140 of 178 posts
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#132One thing that I think the business world has finally learned during the COVID-19 social distancing is that business travel isn't nearly so important as we had imagined. And attending conferences was always fun but it's been amazing to watch how fast conferences have switched to an on-line format (well ... the technical ones that I would attend). So it's my opinion that the airlines, hotels, conference centers and ta…
Meeting people face to face is insanely valuable.
Here is one example from personal experience. I met someone at a conference in Silicon Valley years ago. Later on I’m doing research for a project and trying to find subject matter experts to lead the effort. In my research I find 15 people who are qualified. Two respond to my attempts to contact them. One dismissed me and the other is that person I met at that conference. He tells me that the only reason he’s talking to me still is we met at the conference.
We started working together and it’s been a fruitful endeavor.
The moment in person conferences are safe again they will explode. Everyone will want to see other people again,
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#133Question: Lufthansa's market cap is less than 5Bn, why is the German government not buying it for that amount, bailing it, then (hopefully) selling it in a decade when the situation improves?
France is bailing Air France, Germany is bailing Lufthansa, what does it mean for a company like EasyJet? Will it get bailed too or just crash due to governments helping some companies but not others?
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#134I have always difficulties understanding these kind of statements:
"appointment of civil servants or politicians to the supervisory board was unacceptable in the eyes of Lufthansa's executives."
Like, how is that any of executives' business who is on the supervisory board? If they do not like the money, find other investors, easy as that? It is almost like "ownership" is not a concept that should be associated with corporate shareholders at all, because it seems that the relationship between shareholders and corporation has very little resemblance of actual ownership.
Same thing applies to "hostile takeovers". What on earth is that? How come executives of the company I have shares at think they are anyhow entitled to have an opinion about me selling my shares to whom I want? None of their business whatsoever. If they want to have opinion, offer me better price.
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#135Question: Lufthansa's market cap is less than 5Bn, why is the German government not buying it for that amount, bailing it, then (hopefully) selling it in a decade when the situation improves? France is bailing Air France, Germany is bailing Lufthansa, what does it mean for a company like EasyJet? Will it get bailed too or just crash due to governments helping some companies but not others?
After buying, they'd just have ownership but would still have to pump in just as much additional money. (Also you can't generally succeed in buying a company at its market cap value off the stock market becausenthe stock price goes up witj the demand)
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#136Question: Lufthansa's market cap is less than 5Bn, why is the German government not buying it for that amount, bailing it, then (hopefully) selling it in a decade when the situation improves? France is bailing Air France, Germany is bailing Lufthansa, what does it mean for a company like EasyJet? Will it get bailed too or just crash due to governments helping some companies but not others?
The second is actually why noone really knows if this will go through. EU law may prevent most kinds of subsidies for national carriers.
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#137One thing that I think the business world has finally learned during the COVID-19 social distancing is that business travel isn't nearly so important as we had imagined. And attending conferences was always fun but it's been amazing to watch how fast conferences have switched to an on-line format (well ... the technical ones that I would attend). So it's my opinion that the airlines, hotels, conference centers and ta…
[deleted]
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#138Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope. Because they have already paid all of this in taxes. It means, that the 10 bn won't get 'invested' by the government in another project, e.g., welfare benefits, infrastructure, health, or education. Alternatively, it means: nothing of all of those, but inflation will rise an additional 0.0001% (if the funding source is printing money vs. using tax payer money)
Airline is the infrastructure tho, cheap air travel is available throughout EU. If you remove that, economy will take major hit. There is hardly any reading block with cooperation like EU. You fly from France to Italy and work with people there then you fly to Switzerland and demonstrate your product their and then you deal with marketing agency in UK to market your products at global level. It becomes inefficient wi…
Lufthansa is never close to cheap flights...
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope. Because they have already paid all of this in taxes. It means, that the 10 bn won't get 'invested' by the government in another project, e.g., welfare benefits, infrastructure, health, or education. Alternatively, it means: nothing of all of those, but inflation will rise an additional 0.0001% (if the funding source is printing money vs. using tax payer money)
Airline is the infrastructure tho, cheap air travel is available throughout EU. If you remove that, economy will take major hit. There is hardly any reading block with cooperation like EU. You fly from France to Italy and work with people there then you fly to Switzerland and demonstrate your product their and then you deal with marketing agency in UK to market your products at global level. It becomes inefficient wi…
That sounds like an ad for some lifestyle product, not reality. Frequent in-person meetings aren't that important to the economy. It's cheap, quick and simple transport of goods throughout Europe that is important, not some executive traveling to four countries in an afternoon.
Re: German government to bail Lufthansa out of bankruptcy with nearly $10B state aid
#140Does it mean that every german will have to pay about $10B / 80m = 125 euros for that ? So it means that they'll have, for example, to wait a little longer to buy their next phone, or lunch ? (I ask the question here because that's the kind of reasoning I read in the press but I'd like to know if it's as simple as that)
I guess, if they started paying now. But the (high) taxes have been collected for so long the state has some considerable savings by now...
There are no savings on the federal level (or any level, really). Federal, state and county level are generally driven by debt and steadily increasing their budget due to mission creep.