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U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#651

Post by sixothree »

dudul wrote: post #112
nimbius wrote: post #98

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. My job just cut benefits and hours but we're "essential." Remembe…

And this post is why I get so infuriated when I see all the blue-checkmarks on Twitter, calling people who want to go back to work "Selfish, stupid, idiot, etc". People don't want lockdown to stop because they need to go to their hairdresser, or because they need to go hangout at the pub, or whatever idiotic reason these privilege a-holes put in their tweets. People want to get back to work , because they need money…

Think for a second the absolute nightmare the economy would be going through if we _hadn't_ locked down.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#652

Post by arbitrary_name »

parsnips wrote: post #539
standardUser wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of any influential individuals calling for overthrowing the current economic system and replacing it with a centrally planned economy?

AOC, Rashida Talib, Ilhan Omar. What do you think the Green New Deal is?

What on earth are you talking about?

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#653

Post by sixothree »

makomk wrote: post #287
inscionent wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can print more money right. Money isn't real. Death and this virus are. How about we just take care of those who need taking care of during this disaster. How about we put all national efforts to keep the lights on, providing safe housing and keeping the food supply chains intact. Instead we are worried about corporate quarterly profits and when the Ruby Tuesday can reopen, because somehow serving burgers for $3/h…

We can print more money, but we cannot print the things the money will buy . When the factories shut their doors and busineses small and large collapse and the food supply chain implodes, you can't eat money or shelter from the rain under money - and all that turning the printing presses up will do is to make it clear to everyone just how unreal money actually is. We know from other countries that's really hard to un…

And if those people are dying in droves? What then, who makes these things?

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#654

Post by stcredzero »

dlkf wrote: post #639
kilroy123 wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with you, but... How about don't vote in leaders that only care about helping out their rich buddies then? The Scandinavian countries have moved to pay all payrolls to keep people paid during all this madness, instead of just bailing out large debt holders.

It's tough when your country isn't much of a democracy. A major difference between Scandinavia and the US/Canada/many others is that proportional representation plays a much greater role in the electoral system here.

It's a good thing, when a republic is constructed so that a minority still has a voice. One might perceive them as the "wrong" minority today, in the current context. In the future, they might well be the "correct" minority.

(That said, I think Sweden of all places in the west, have had the best, most sane reaction to the pandemic.)

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#655

Post by RankingMember »

yters wrote: post #636
RankingMember wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but one kills directly and in much larger numbers. I think it's clear which is the bigger mortal threat.

I disagree the situation is clear. To take the logical extreme, if we were to avoid all possible immediate threat to life, no one should leave the house, let alone drive to work. Obviously, our society would immediately collapse, and many millions would die. So we have to balance possible immediate threats against likely longer term consequences. Something we do not seem to be doing very well in the case of covid-19.

> I disagree the situation is clear

I'm confused, do you actually think the mortality rate of a down economy will be anywhere near that of a pandemic? Let me know if I'm misinterpreting you here but it sure seems like this is what you're arguing.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#656

Post by sixothree »

Filligree wrote: post #149
res0nat0r wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand their thinking because not working is causing a massive amount of collateral damage, but the virus doesn't care about any of that. If everyone goes back to normal too early, this all just starts over, and folks are forced to be inside even longer, there's just no way around it.

80-90% of people who catch this disease would survive without treatment. If America won't support people who might die of starvation when stuck at home, then the individually smartest response becomes to take their chance with the virus. I don't need to explain what a 10-20% death rate would do to society, however.

I'm sure it would have more than a 4.8% impact.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#657

Post by spaceman_2020 »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #126
nimbius wrote: post #98

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. My job just cut benefits and hours but we're "essential." Remembe…

What you're saying matches up with the reports I've been seeing. I think a lot of HN readers are simply unable to believe such a thing can occur; the recessions of the past thirty years were mild compared to what's happening right now. Personally, I'm absolutely terrified.

What bothers me more than anything else is the unpredictability of it all. We don't know how this thing will pan out. There is way too much conflicting data about it. Will it burn out and mutate into less lethal strains? Will we get it in the waves? Will it be a seasonal thing we have to live with? Will there be a cure or better, a vaccine? Or will it be like the common cold with no vaccine?.

We don't know. And without that knowledge, you can't plan for the future. I wouldn't want to invest money into any business right now. Who knows what shape we will be in in 12 months time?

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#658

Post by andrewmcwatters »

hnarn wrote: post #115
nimbius wrote: post #98

This is anecdotal and it might come across as bitter and tonedeaf as someone who is not in a STEM job and cant see the bigger picture very well. Im a diesel engine tech who repairs those big trucks carrying food and shit tickets to grocery stores. the fact that ANY market is completely detached from whats actually happening to Americans is frustrating. My job just cut benefits and hours but we're "essential." Remembe…

[flagged]

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Steinbeck#Disputed

"Except for the field organizers of strikes, who were pretty tough monkeys and devoted, most of the so-called Communists I met were middle-class, middle-aged people playing a game of dreams. I remember a woman in easy circumstances saying to another even more affluent: 'After the revolution even we will have more, won't we, dear?' Then there was another lover of proletarians who used to raise hell with Sunday picknickers on her property. "I guess the trouble was that we didn't have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist. Maybe the Communists so closely questioned by the investigation committees were a danger to America, but the ones I knew — at least they claimed to be Communists — couldn't have disrupted a Sunday-school picnic. Besides they were too busy fighting among themselves."

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#659

Post by Tade0 »

eppp wrote: post #369
slfnflctd wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense if the car tends to last 350k+ miles and has only been gently used. There are at least a few models that have pretty consistently been getting up to that or higher before major repair is needed since 2010 or so. I will say I think quality hybrids (again, gently used) are worth more than a lot of their counterparts on this point.

Gently used at 100k seems like a strong ask. I commute two hours a day and get around ~20k miles a year. The car would be five years old at the point of 100k. Quicker than that and the person that owned it drove the crap out of it. Plastic and trim is squeaking, stains, scratches, etc. I dont personally care about any of that but I expect it to be reflected heavily in the price. Then you look at the asking prices for…

It's possible if you're like my friend whose job was to drive all around Europe hauling specialised parts for construction equipment, sometimes doing 2k km in a single day.

I think he did 60k km (37.5k miles) during the first year, but you couldn't tell that from the shape the car was in, since he cared for both the exterior and interior.

The only thing that showed any visible signs of aging were the windshield wipers - he had so much on his plate that he couldn't squeeze out a few minutes to refresh them.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#660

Post by econcon »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #474
at-fates-hands wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the richest 10% of americans own 84% of all stock. The top 20% of earners also handle close to 90% of the tax burden, while close to 50% of the population pay nothing in taxes.

That's because the top has looted the economy, leaving little or nothing for the rest of us. Its not a reflection on the bottom 50% at all.

I don't think it's because top are lotting, more like people at top have bigger leverage. But in all, all people are equally likely to loot if the places were changed.
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