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U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

bloomberg.com

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Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#621

Post by samstave »

sjtindell wrote: post #444
_bxg1 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question is how much, if any, social unrest this will lead to. There is deep rot at the heart of the American system, and something is going to have to give. The economy has been broken for the lower 50% for a long time now. This course is unsustainable. I try not to get explicitly political on here, but Bernie Sanders was, as far as I can see, our last shot at reversing the trend from within the current system.…

Does anyone else remember Occupy Wall Street here in the US? Millions camping out in parks demanding change and support. But they were unable to rally, organize, create any lasting impact on the elites and wealthier strata of society. The middle and top looked down on the bottom as an annoyance. They were literally removed by riot police, and the movement died. Unsurprisingly, the number of homeless people increased…

Of course!

My conspiracy theory is that because the stole 700billion with the bank bailouts and that resulted in OWS, which was quashed pretty quickly - and resulted in no consequences for those that stole that.

They have ossued the “stay inside orders” whole the now steal four trillion dollars so there wont be another OWS at scale.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#622

Post by lisper »

kjshdfklsjhlf wrote: post #615
lisper wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples?

Basically every dumb thing the republicans do with regard to abortion has an analog with the left and gun control.

What does that have to do with corruption and denial of facts?

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#623

Post by thedragonline »

bo1024 wrote: post #562
0xffff2 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My question is how much, if any, social unrest this will lead to. My question is how many people have absolutely no ties to the stock market? I'm pretty far from any definition of rich, but I still have a 401k, so you're not likely to see me rioting because the S&P 500 is in the green.

The idea of the 401k is such an amazing hustle for the wealthy. * Middle-class Americans consistently pump money into the stock market generically (not information trading), raising the value of all your stocks over time. * Now you have a gun to their head to support policies that pump up the value of your stocks even more. * Also, when shit hits the fan, they can't easily cash out, but you can. Both on a mega-scale…

If you research the history, you discover that the 401k was designed for the C-suite, not ordinary workers. Some calculating Wall Streeter(s) somewhere decided that it's a reasonable retirement vehicle for ordinary shlubs. It is not. See this: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/teresa-ghilarducc...

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#624

Post by jl6 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #566
mc32 wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If businesses employed robots you’d have a point. But most today provide people gainful employment. No businesses left means no one to hire you.

The businesses don't disappear because the doors close for a few months. People will still have their colleagues’ contact information to be able to re hire and start again.

Some businesses can be easily put on hold and restarted later. I’d wager it’s not that easy for most.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#625

Post by standardUser »

sethammons wrote: post #532
standardUser wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of any influential individuals calling for overthrowing the current economic system and replacing it with a centrally planned economy?

While not influential per se, it feels like every response to "people need work / pay" is "the govt can save us, get back in your house moron." The only way that anyone talks about it working is the govt taking over and suspending this or that, paying for this other thing, a few trillion here and there. They are all saying "centrally planned economy" without saying it.

No, you are saying "centrally planned economy" on their behalf. They are calling for extreme but temporary emergency measures to handle what may be the greatest economic crisis of our lifetimes.

Are you seriously confusing support for these measures with support for ending the market system in the United States? Can you see what a fantastical stretch that is?

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#626

Post by standardUser »

parsnips wrote: post #539
standardUser wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples of any influential individuals calling for overthrowing the current economic system and replacing it with a centrally planned economy?

AOC, Rashida Talib, Ilhan Omar. What do you think the Green New Deal is?

The Green New Deal is not a call for an end to market capitalism, nor is it a call for a centrally planned economy. Your point is utterly invalid.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#627

Post by VRay »

coldpie wrote: post #585
cactus2093 wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with what you're saying, but disagree about Bernie. Many of his biggest policies are still just trying to cover the rot with a coat of paint. Healthcare too expensive? Just have the government cover the bill. College too expensive? Same thing. Workers not paid enough? Raise the minimum wage. All very blunt, simplistic reactions, that ignore the complexities of the real world. Getting rid of the rot req…

> If something is 10x more expensive today than it was a few decades ago, just agreeing to pay the 10x price is not a good solution. That's not what those proposals were. Single payer healthcare and state-provided education is how you fix those problems.

IMO, 4 year university degrees in the USA in their current state are basically a scam

We're promising kids that if they study hard in school they'll be elevated to the middle/upper class by their degree, but in reality most of those degrees are almost completely worthless for building a career.

People are graduating with 4 year degrees in business, math, assorted liberal arts, and then they're saddled with 6 figures of debt and not any more appealing to companies than someone with a year of experience in a desk job

Another problem: So many people are getting pushed into getting 4 year degrees now that they're now a requirement for many jobs that don't even need them. Sure, a CS degree will help if you're building some Google-scale backend code, but you really don't need one to tinker with a small web storefront's layout bugs

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#628

Post by CPLX »

xingped wrote: post #281
toomuchtodo wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and I'm going to record a lien on it with the county so nobody can take it if things get worse and she has to declare bankruptcy This is brilliant. I have never considered using such a tool in my travels, but have added it to my tool belt. Thank you. > The rich get richer because they know how to take advantage of situations like this. Preach!

Can someone explain how this works?

It doesn't. Bankruptcy courts and courts in general are pretty wise to the idea of "debts" and dubious last minute transfers to family members, close relatives, and so on. This guy is definitely not the first person to think of the idea.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#629

Post by sudosysgen »

TomVDB wrote: post #541
sudosysgen wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, none of them would actually have implemented it, except the only one with a history of going against party and lobby. Barack Obama ran far to the left of Barack Obama, but ended up compromising with Republicans for some absurd reason as he held both the house and senate, to the degree where he passed Mitt Romney's proposal while dragging his feet. None of them except for Bernie Sanders was willing to rec…

> but ended up compromising with Republicans for some absurd reason as he held both the house and senate My memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but didn't he also have to compromise with the (relatively) right-leaning wing of the Democratic party?

Did Trump have to compromise with the left wing of the Republican Party? Did Biden have to compromise with the left wing of the Democratic Party? No, because of the implicit threat of being primaried, or for the party to be shifted. Which Obama did not even threaten, but all others presidents did (towards the right).

He also openly compomised in the name of "bipartisanship" multiple times despite it being uneeded.

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks at 4.8% Pace, Signaling Start of Recession

#630

Post by lisper »

baggy_trough wrote: post #600
lisper wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples?

Of course. Many large cities have been run exclusively by Democrats for decades and are notoriously corrupt, for example Chicago and Illinois more generally. The facts that are denied will be those that run counter to the prevailing sacred cows of whatever movement it is. One that especially irks me on the Democratic side of the fence is denying that the minimum wage has a cost in jobs, despite near universal belief…

That’s not an example that is a vague hand-wavy allegation. Which cities? What specific acts of corruption?
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