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Which billionaires are doing the most good?

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Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#71

Post by okintheory »

tyrust wrote: post #26
kemiller2002 wrote: post #6

I don't like rankings like this. I'm not saying all of them, but at least a few made their money off of the backs of others, being ruthless in business, etc. How gracious of them to give money to people they hurt in the first place. I'm glad they are doing good, but let's not pretend they were completely altruistic. Also, a number of these people donated money years ago to avoid taxes, and the money was invested and…

>a number of these people donated money years ago to avoid taxes This isn't how taxes work. If you donate money then you've only reduced your taxable principal. You "avoid taxes" in the sense that it's as if you never made that money. You don't magically reduce your burden any further than that. People won't take your otherwise fine point seriously if you include this commonly made error.

It's more complicated than that, as far as I understand. If you shift your money into a foundation, under some constructions, you can retain a lot of control over how it's spent, while avoiding taxes. Later you can pass control (and hence effectively wealth) along to your kids, this time avoiding inheritance taxes.

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#72

Post by sharatvir »

kemiller2002 wrote: post #6

I don't like rankings like this. I'm not saying all of them, but at least a few made their money off of the backs of others, being ruthless in business, etc. How gracious of them to give money to people they hurt in the first place. I'm glad they are doing good, but let's not pretend they were completely altruistic. Also, a number of these people donated money years ago to avoid taxes, and the money was invested and…

For more on this, I highly recommend Anand Giridharadas's 2018 book "Winners Take All: The Elite Charade of Changing the World" on the problems behind billionaire philanthropy.

It feels more and more relevant in a post COVID world.

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#73

Post by dathinab »

kemiller2002 wrote: post #6

I don't like rankings like this. I'm not saying all of them, but at least a few made their money off of the backs of others, being ruthless in business, etc. How gracious of them to give money to people they hurt in the first place. I'm glad they are doing good, but let's not pretend they were completely altruistic. Also, a number of these people donated money years ago to avoid taxes, and the money was invested and…

Sadly the truth is that except inheriting money it's nearly impossible to become a multi billionaire without doing ruthless maybe legal but immoral actions (or having someone do them for your).

E.g. Suckerberg did questionable business tactics to kick out early invester which where the people which enabled him to become successful. After this Facebook under him repeatedly acted in bad faite to gain a competitive advantage even if this meant lying to the government, smaller business being unfairly destroy and even lives being lost.

I'm not sure if he even once put social responsibilities over long term profit. At least it looks that way.

And compared to many other companies this might even be harmless.

Through not that this isn't true for (multi-)millionaires, you can get that while acting morally responsible. It's just harder and you need more luck.

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#74

Post by Yizahi »

Are they though? I don't want to spread baseless hate and I actually respect many of those people. But if someone would calculate total absolute positive and absolute negative for each of then I'm not sure that total would be above zero line. I talking about widespread and increasing economical inequality in all countries since last world war ans each billionaire is partially responsible for this process which I consider more negative than positive. I'm not advocating for some forceful wealth exchange but I think it is possible to at least discuss the issue.

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#76

Post by zozbot234 »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #66
zozbot234 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The wealth isn't the problem if it's distributed evenly. Isn't that what these billionaires are doing? Giving their money away. The more billionaires donate, the closer we get to your world where everyone has as much agency over their lives as possible. (Including the donors, of course.)

Are they? Is wealth inequality decreasing? Those are rhetorical questions, of course. The answers are no, and no. If billionaires overall do tend to donate significant portions of their wealth, then the fact that wealth inequality is increasing in spite of that practice is hard evidence that individual charity is an ineffective means of lifting people out of poverty. If the converse is true -- that they aren't donati…

In all seriousness, the way wealth inequality is measured wouldn't tell you that in the first place. You'd have to look at consumption inequality, which would include stuff like Larry Ellison's yachts (on the "high inequality" side) and perhaps poor people's final consumption resulting from these donations (on the "low inequality" side).

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#77

Post by malandrew »

kemiller2002 wrote: post #51
tyrust wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a number of these people donated money years ago to avoid taxes This isn't how taxes work. If you donate money then you've only reduced your taxable principal. You "avoid taxes" in the sense that it's as if you never made that money. You don't magically reduce your burden any further than that. People won't take your otherwise fine point seriously if you include this commonly made error.

Except for the fact that they are at least partially in control of the fund either through a DAF or their own charity. You're right they can't spend it on anything they want, but they have the ability to direct in many specific instances with few exceptions. Often if it's their own foundation, to further almost any goal they want. So yeah, they get to not pay taxes on their money and at least spend it partially how t…

Required reading for anyone making this criticism: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/29/against-against-billio...

It's worth reading that entire well-reasoned and well-researched post, but the tl;dr is that many billionaire philanthropists do a lot more good per dollar spent than the government and they get problems solved that government is often incapable of solving.

Plus, a sizeable portion of every tax dollar goes to the military, so tax minimization helps reduce how much goes to the war machine.

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#78

Post by qqssccfftt »

ggreer wrote: post #65
qqssccfftt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not saying all of them, but at least a few made their money off of the backs of others, being ruthless in business No, that's all of them. You don't become a billionaire by being nice and non-exploitative.

What? I can think of several off the top of my head. J. K. Rowling became a billionaire by writing the Harry Potter books. Oprah Winfrey became a billionaire through her brand as a talented talk show host. Michael Jordan became a billionaire thanks to his basketball skills. None of those are even remotely exploitative.

> J. K. Rowling became a billionaire by writing the Harry Potter books.

And the hundreds of marketing people and the editors?

> Oprah Winfrey became a billionaire through her brand as a talented talk show host.

And everyone who makes her shows work?

> Michael Jordan became a billionaire thanks to his basketball skills.

And his coaches and trainers?

Without these people, none of those billionaires would've made it.

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#79

Post by malandrew »

okintheory wrote: post #71
tyrust wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a number of these people donated money years ago to avoid taxes This isn't how taxes work. If you donate money then you've only reduced your taxable principal. You "avoid taxes" in the sense that it's as if you never made that money. You don't magically reduce your burden any further than that. People won't take your otherwise fine point seriously if you include this commonly made error.

It's more complicated than that, as far as I understand. If you shift your money into a foundation, under some constructions, you can retain a lot of control over how it's spent, while avoiding taxes. Later you can pass control (and hence effectively wealth) along to your kids, this time avoiding inheritance taxes.

But the kids still don't get that money. They only get control of a charity. It's not like they can buy a yacht.

Re: Which billionaires are doing the most good?

#80

Post by gamblor956 »

kemiller2002 wrote: post #51
tyrust wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a number of these people donated money years ago to avoid taxes This isn't how taxes work. If you donate money then you've only reduced your taxable principal. You "avoid taxes" in the sense that it's as if you never made that money. You don't magically reduce your burden any further than that. People won't take your otherwise fine point seriously if you include this commonly made error.

Except for the fact that they are at least partially in control of the fund either through a DAF or their own charity. You're right they can't spend it on anything they want, but they have the ability to direct in many specific instances with few exceptions. Often if it's their own foundation, to further almost any goal they want. So yeah, they get to not pay taxes on their money and at least spend it partially how t…

A donation to a private foundation is not deductible.
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