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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#621

Post by wvenable »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #556
wvenable wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, using a free service is not the same as purchasing something that happens to be zero dollars. If there is a contractual relationship you can be sure that the terms are that Google can remove your video for any reason of their choosing and by using their service you are agreeing to that. And you do agree with that because it's free. Nobody says you have to build your own YouTube as that is certainly not the only w…

It has nothing to do with cheap. Anybody can register a domain name and buy a web server and buy a building to put it in and internet service to host it with and post all their videos and they'll get zero page views even after spending all of that money because nobody can find them. The thing YouTube has that isn't available to the average Joe isn't web servers, it's all the glue that comes from being a part of Googl…

> they'll get zero page views even after spending all of that money because nobody can find them.

You might not be cheap anymore, now you're just lazy. It used to be that if you had something important to say you might actually have to climb out of the basement, walk to the church, and post your words to the door.

The expectation that others should both host and promote your crazy ideas for free is the problem.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#622

Post by SkyMarshal »

foolinaround wrote: post #608
SkyMarshal wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Videos like this not only spread false info, they do something more pernicious by distorting or distracting an already partially-numerate public from understanding growth rates and scale. Eg, the important thing about an outbreak is its second and third derivatives, rate of growth and rate of rate of growth. Here they claim SARS-NCOV-2 is "similar in prevalance and death rate" to flu, somehow missing the fact that th…

i am almost with you there, but i see youtube as a biased actor also, when experts themselves (not these 2 guys) have come up with different recommendations - and cant agree with themselves, youtube should allow a free exchange of ideas. they are free (and should) to add a notice that says that it is potentially false, etc.

Yes YouTube and Google appear to have deprioritized neutrality in recent years, which I think is a mistake for them.

But I also think this particular instance is not the right hill for people who care about that to die on. It’s a form of falsely or mistakenly crying wolf and will cost them credibility.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#623

Post by philipov »

gccxsse wrote: post #600
Barrin92 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them? The fact that it is their platform. >Fauci can defend himself, Fauci is a 79 year old man busy working 20 hours a day trying to stop more people from dying, he doesn't have the time to debunk garbage on the internet. Youtube is completely within their rights to remove dangerous disinformation from their platform and I hope they take an agressive stance goi…

>dangerous disinformation What does this even mean?? Have we forgotten the importance of free speech?

Because the constitutional amendments only place restrictions on the government, we don't get to have free speech if we rely on private platforms to be the primary means of political expression.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#624

Post by joshuaheard »

kaitai wrote: post #273
joshuaheard wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An order of magnitude usually means 10x, ie 140 vs 14. According to your article, Sweden has had a lower death rate than the UK, Spain, or Italy.

One can compare it to its immediate neighbors (Finland, Denmark, Norway) and get your order of magnitude right there. Norway: 206 deaths, population a bit over 5.8 million. Finland: 199 deaths, population a bit over 5 million. Sweden: 2,355 deaths, population a bit over 10 million. I'll let you carry out the division yourself. Comparing to its geographical and cultural neighbors helps deal with differences in city st…

All of these European countries are more similar than different. What we see here is significant data that contradicts the conclusions in the article. In other words, it is possible that Sweden's policy is working.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#625

Post by ceejayoz »

username90 wrote: post #579
pmarreck wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if the general public does not have the expertise to evaluate public health policy discussions and decisions But you're now asking people to trust experts, which in 2020 is apparently crazy-talk

The problem is that the people who made this video are by definition experts. Experts are often wrong and disagree, so if the public listens to the wrong experts and silence the right experts we have a problem. Therefore it is better to not try to decide which experts are right or wrong so we can silence them, since chances are that the people doing the evaluation are the ones in the wrong.

> The problem is that the people who made this video are by definition experts.

They are experts in an entirely different field.

You don't need any training in statistics, epidemiology, public health, etc. to be an urgent care doc. They're experts in diagnosing and fixing ailments (at an individual level) that don't require a full-blown ER visit or hospitalization.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#626

Post by klyrs »

runawaybottle wrote: post #539
klyrs wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is spam free speech? Are bookstores required to stock every book ever published? Are fraud and defamation free speech? Must newspapers post every classified ad submitted to them? Is medical advice free speech? Are government clerks required to serve verbally abusive clients? No, no, no... there are plenty of examples where the right to free speech is found to have limits. Especially when that speech violates other fr…

Well, in that case, this is unacceptable going forward. We’re going to need a Youtube clone that has a better charter for content creators, and viewers alike.

Nothing's stopping you from making ChanTube, GabTube, or whatever you find "acceptable". But, if it gets popular, be prepared to take down illegal content, filter spam, get sued by copyright holders, etc. until it looks a lot more like youtube than you intended. Or, y'know, break under the weight of the consequences of harmful speech without substantial ad income since most advertisers won't want to associate with your toxic platform.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#627

Post by wvenable »

dependenttypes wrote: post #588
wvenable wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal. The problem with the ideal is that most people have it wrong. "Free speech" is not speech without consequences. Nobody here thinks that speech should be criminalized but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard. If nobody wants to associate with you because of your speech, that's their right. You are not entitled to a soapbox.

> "Free speech" is not speech without consequences This is literally what free speech is. "You can speak your mind or I will kill you" or "You can speak your mind but if I disagree with you I will make sure that nobody can hear you again (by de-platforming you)" is not very free speech-y. > but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard You should certainly have the right to be heard by these that want to hear…

If you post a sign on my front lawn, I have the right to remove it. It's my lawn. That's my freedom of expression to remove it. It seems like you just want it one way.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#628

Post by JoeAltmaier »

skuthus wrote: post #610
dependenttypes wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Free speech" is not speech without consequences This is literally what free speech is. "You can speak your mind or I will kill you" or "You can speak your mind but if I disagree with you I will make sure that nobody can hear you again (by de-platforming you)" is not very free speech-y. > but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard You should certainly have the right to be heard by these that want to hear…

It's more like 'I have the right to choose which voices get heard on my private platform'

Yeah no. YouTube is arguably a very, very public platform. Open to the public; entirely populated and funded by the public (i.e. millions of content providers and viewers generate all the income).

Its reasonable to have different rules for a local newspaper vs a worldwide monopolist.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#629

Post by techntoke »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #524
olliej wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not. There are innumerable hosting services. The crux is people wanting to spread their views but who don’t want to pay to do that.

> There are innumerable hosting services. Is this an honest comment or one you hope won't be challenged? There are NO video hosting services with the popularity or reach of YouTube, by a very long shot. Customers of ours have lost their entire livelihood because content that was present on YouTube for a decade was suddenly politically incorrect and their accounts got banned. That wouldn't be the case if they had more…

There are hundreds if not thousands of video sharing platforms. Plus a shared web host cost very little, and there is always BitTorrent too. No one is forcing anyone to use YouTube for videos. Anyone that lost their livelihood because of YouTube should have read the TOS.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#630

Post by hkai »

philipov wrote: post #623
gccxsse wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>dangerous disinformation What does this even mean?? Have we forgotten the importance of free speech?

Because the constitutional amendments only place restrictions on the government, we don't get to have free speech if we rely on private platforms to be the primary means of political expression.

Is this desirable?
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