Free America Now (@elonmusk) • Hacker News Board

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#101

Post by IfIEverCatchYou » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:21 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #90

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the drop in cases, ludicrously low infection and death rates, the need to balance healthcare system burden with a speedy development of herd immunity,and the economic devastation. People can’t just say “it’s worth it if we save just one life”. Bullshit. Everything requires context, and being under lockdown has its own severe consequences. Including the loss of life.

It looks like it’s several times more deadly than the flu if a hospital can provide optimal treatment . Should we go ahead and rapidly infect everyone the death toll will go to Italy. Additionally, I would suspect that the cost of rapidly developing herd immunity, the subsequent uptick in deaths due to 1 in 5 or so people needing the hospital and unable to receive assistance because the hospital cannot take 1 in 5 pe…

Faults in your argument:

Hospitals are mostly empty in the US.

Antibody testing is showing that herd immunity is rapidly growing.

Persons who could be severely infected by COVID are generally not in the workforce.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#102

Post by matz1 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:22 PM UTC

take_a_breath wrote: post #92

matz1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want to risk people life by not allowing them to work ?

Provide data that shows it is a larger risk. Without that data you are arguing based on ideology not facts. The thing about not working is that we have government mechanisms to help those people. We can beef up social security, unemployment benefits, or direct payments. Then people can go back to work afterwards. Work will always exist. It exists even now with a “closed” economy. The thing about dying is that it’s pr…

>We can beef up social security, unemployment benefits, or direct payments

If you give people money for not working, who are going to work then ? Money will become meaningless if you can't use to buy stuff.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#103

Post by IfIEverCatchYou » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

take_a_breath wrote: post #87

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the drop in cases, ludicrously low infection and death rates, the need to balance healthcare system burden with a speedy development of herd immunity,and the economic devastation. People can’t just say “it’s worth it if we save just one life”. Bullshit. Everything requires context, and being under lockdown has its own severe consequences. Including the loss of life.

==Based on the drop in cases== Friday and Saturday saw the highest single day totals of new cases. ==ludicrously low infection and death rates== Nobody knows these rates because we can’t test enough people to know infection rates. People are dying at home so it will be a while until we know actual death rates. ==speedy development of herd immunity== You and your family should jump to the front line and help build thi…

> You and your family should jump to the front line and help build this immunity. I’ll protect my 2 year-old and pregnant wife in our home.

This is exactly how the pandemic should have been handled. Personal risk should have been allowed to be determined by the individual, not the state, at the expense of personal rights.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#104

Post by matz1 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:25 PM UTC

pinkfoot wrote: post #96

matz1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want to risk people life by not allowing them to work ?

Ok, I'll bite: where are the coffins of all the people who have died in the last four weeks from not working? Because I can show you lots of coffins from people in NY and Italy who went to work whilst the pandemic was raging.

you don't think no people will die by not be able to afford basic necessities due to not working ?

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#105

Post by matz1 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:27 PM UTC

take_a_breath wrote: post #87

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the drop in cases, ludicrously low infection and death rates, the need to balance healthcare system burden with a speedy development of herd immunity,and the economic devastation. People can’t just say “it’s worth it if we save just one life”. Bullshit. Everything requires context, and being under lockdown has its own severe consequences. Including the loss of life.

==Based on the drop in cases== Friday and Saturday saw the highest single day totals of new cases. ==ludicrously low infection and death rates== Nobody knows these rates because we can’t test enough people to know infection rates. People are dying at home so it will be a while until we know actual death rates. ==speedy development of herd immunity== You and your family should jump to the front line and help build thi…

>You and your family should jump to the front line and help build this immunity

Yes by allowing people to go outside, work and do their normal activity. It builds their and other people immune system. Prolong lockdown will cause immune system to go down.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#106

Post by take_a_breath » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

IfIEverCatchYou wrote: post #101

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like it’s several times more deadly than the flu if a hospital can provide optimal treatment . Should we go ahead and rapidly infect everyone the death toll will go to Italy. Additionally, I would suspect that the cost of rapidly developing herd immunity, the subsequent uptick in deaths due to 1 in 5 or so people needing the hospital and unable to receive assistance because the hospital cannot take 1 in 5 pe…

Faults in your argument: Hospitals are mostly empty in the US. Antibody testing is showing that herd immunity is rapidly growing. Persons who could be severely infected by COVID are generally not in the workforce.

Could you provide sources for these three points?

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#107

Post by cwhiz » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #97

cwhiz wrote: post #21

NY, NJ, PA, CT, and MA have 53% of cases. It’s time to stop treating this like every state or region is in the same situation. Edit: Some people apparently need to be reminded that Europe is a place. Individual countries are reopening as they see fit based on how they are handling the virus. It honestly is starting to feel like some people prefer the pain than the idea of safely reopening certain states and regions.

From what I understand Germany’s infection rate has actually increased as a result of the reopening moves.[0] 0. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/28/germanys-coronavirus-infecti...

Yes. They are monitoring it and reacting appropriately. If it doesn’t work they will pull back and try again.

But their actions are not being dictated by the situation in Italy or France. Likewise, Montana should not take action based on what is going on in New York.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#108

Post by matz1 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:28 PM UTC

falcolas wrote: post #100

matz1 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want to risk people life by not allowing them to work ?

So you want to risk people’s lives by forcing them to work? And yes, it is forcing. Amazon, a fantastic example right now, is removing the ability for warehouse workers to stay at home, unless they take unpaid leave. No pay, no healthcare benefits, unless you go into a warehouse and risk your lives.

I didn't say force, if you don't want to work then don't work.

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#109

Post by paypalcust83 » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:33 PM UTC

generalpass wrote: post #74

I tend to feel that what we are seeing is a society without any philosophical understandings. The hard sciences have taken over, and we are to see a new version of eugenics take over - a different name, a stated different goal, but an equally immoral result. Does anyone remember Hunter S. Thompson?

A Savage Journey to the Heart of the American Dream.

But does anyone remember City Light Books? :hmm:

Re: Free America Now (@elonmusk)

#110

Post by bildung » Wed, Apr 29, 2020, 1:33 PM UTC

pinkfoot wrote: post #84

bildung wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also implied there won't be more than 0.1% of the US population infected overall, https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1239755145233289217

And he might still be right. But - and here is the rub - it will be because the lockdown interrupted person-to-person transfers, and not because the inert bases making up the virus suddenly decided all by themselves, and all over the world, to lower their R0 from > 3 to < 1.

> And he might still be right.

The US already has over 1M cases, so 0.3%?