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With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

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Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#181
I know its meant a a joke but Jay-z copypasta over a beat is legit cool. https://soundcloud.com/odyssey/jay-z-copypasta/s-JRXSJCBFsPu

So I get where he's coming from. If I heard this version first I would have thought it was actually Jay-Z. The naked recording has all artifices of AI generated voice but mixed into a composition they are gone to my ear.

And also there are a few moments that are surreal. A dragged out s at the end of a phrase. Change of flow from smooth to a fast staccato. Fucking the inflection was near perfect. There is something to this AI stuff.

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#182
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but with complexities in general, and a collision with non-copyright issues for deep fakes that starts to get into more unexplored societal/legal territory. First, parody is part of Fair Use, which means that it's an "affirmative defense": in a lawsuit, the burden is on the defendant to bring it up and prove it. That's in contrast to ordinary defenses or arguments around the facts asserted by the plaintiff, where…

>First, parody is part of Fair Use, which means that it's an "affirmative defense": in a lawsuit, the burden is on the defendant to bring it up and prove it. That's in contrast to ordinary defenses or arguments around the facts asserted by the plaintiff, where it's up to the plaintiff to prove them to whatever the required standard of evidence is. This is a misnomer. Fair use is an authorized use, and consequently is…

>This is a misnomer.

No, I don't think so. Fair Use isn't merely a matter of court precedent, it specifically is in the Copyright Act (17 U.S. Code § 107 [1]), the language of which indicates it's on the plaintiff, and subsequent case law does seem to have affirmed that unless you have something further to cite? What you cited right there was Lenz v. Universal Music Corp, a 9th Circuit decision about abuse of DMCA takedowns, and in turn considering the "under penalty of perjury" aspect of the DMCA not "Fair Use" as a defense in general. The quote you gave was in the context of §512, Judge Tallman wrote that §512 "unambiguously contemplates fair use as a use authorized by the law". But again that's specific to the DMCA, and even there while the 9th seemed to want to try stemming abuse a bit, they only required the plaintiff to show a purely subjective lack of belief in infringement. Which could be without any real consideration of fair use factors at all. As well as being circuit only, analysis at the time indicated that if anything it might encourage copyright holders specifically to do as little as possible to consider fair use. Lenz did appeal to SCOTUS on that question but certiorari was not granted. Harvard Law had a fairly in-depth looking analysis [2].

In contrast for the 9th Circuit specifically in Perfect 10 v. Amazon/A9.com/Google [3] they explicitly covered Fair Use as an affirmative defense where the burden was on the plaintiffs:

>C. Fair Use Defense

>Because Perfect 10 has succeeded in showing it would prevail in its prima facie case that Google’s thumbnail images infringe Perfect 10’s display rights, the burden shifts to Google to show that it will likely succeed in establishing an affirmative defense. Google contends that its use of thumbnails is a fair use of the images and therefore does not constitute an infringement of Perfect 10’s copyright. See 17 U.S.C. § 107.

Additionally, I can find modern SCOTUS opinions such as in Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music which support Fair Use as an affirmative defense:

>The fair use factors thus reinforce the importance of keeping the definition of parody within proper limits. More than arguable parodic content should be required to deem a would-be parody a fair use. Fair use is an affirmative defense, so doubts about whether a given use is fair should not be resolved in favor of the self-proclaimed parodist.

It'd be nice if plaintiffs were required to demonstrate as part of a suit that there was not a fair use defense for the defendants, but I really don't think that's the case nationally right now.

----

1: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/107

2: https://harvardlawreview.org/2016/06/lenz-v-universal-music-...

3: http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2007/12/03/06...

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DMCA process also includes a counter-claim provision: the uploader can simply contest the takedown and have the content reinstated. But YouTube doesn't follow the DMCA process at all, they have their own procedure, with no such recourse.

My understanding is that if a uploader does that, youtube has to decide whether to keep it up. If they do, they can then be sued by the right holder if it does infringe. If they take it down, no one can sue them. So that's a huge incentive to just take everything down. Effectively the whole point of DCMA (this part at least) is to pierce the common carrier protection platforms have. Am I wrong? If so, any idea what Y…

Under the DMCA (technically Section 512), they have to reinstate access to the content at least 10 days and at most 14 days after receiving the counter-notice, in order to keep the safe-harbor (they have to wait 10 days to give time for the rights holder to decide if they want to sue the uploader).

> any idea what Youtube don't just let people counterclaim and leave everyone else to argue it out in court?

Essentially YouTube in the pre-Google days was purposefully uploading infringing videos, and Viacom (and others) used that to sue them and under the settlement agreement forced YouTube to build the Content-ID system and have a more lax takedown system.

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#185
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

dead people's copyrighted work sues for copyright issues all the time... not sure how that would help.

Can someone explain to me how copyright being valid after the original owner's death progresses healthy competition? What benefit does it have?

It incentivizes artists to create art, because their work will support their heirs.

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#186
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the law treats the "partner" relationship as something that was freely negotiated between equal parties, despite the obvious power imbalance. Video creators need to from a union to protect their interests, but since they're all "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" I doubt that'll happen.

Let's not forget that YouTube's ContentID system is a direct result from them being sued by Viacom et all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._Y... . If YouTube stops taking down these videos based on this "fiduciary duty" and they get sued again, will this union pay for the legal fees and potential damages? Yeah, not likely.

Anyone can sue anyone for anything. YouTube were protected by the safe harbour rules and won a summary judgement on those grounds.

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#187
post #8
post #5

Bette Midler sued ford back in the day (1988) for hiring an impersonator to sing on an ad and won. (Of course it helped that Ford asked her to sing first) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midler_v._Ford_Motor_Co . "The appellate court ruled that the voice of someone famous as a singer is distinctive to their person and image and therefore, as a part of their identity, it is unlawful to imitate their voice without expres…

Very important to note that the Midler case has very narrow interpretation. From the Opinion: > We need not and do not go so far as to hold that every imitation of a voice to advertise merchandise is actionable. We hold only that when a distinctive voice of a professional singer is widely known and is deliberately imitated in order to sell a product, the sellers have appropriated what is not theirs and have committed…

During Presidents’ Day car ads are run that contain impersonations of past and present presidents, they are impersonated for commercial advantage, do they get prior permission before running those radio ads?

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#188
We really need a law that forces people to label fakes when they willingly produce ones that are hard to tell from the real thing, and harshly punish the ones that omit the label.

It's ok to fake stuff, but it should be clear that you are doing so.

We already have fake cars in advertising, fake food on menus, fake news, fake expert advices... I really don't want to add perfect impersonification to the list.

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#189
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2015 I had an unusual solicitation from a recruiter on LinkedIn - as a lawyer this in my experience is a rarity unlike tech where I understand it to be common place - with interest in offering me a General Counsel position with Romero Britto's Company. Turns out Apple engaged in discussions to license (or maybe commissioning) Britto's Art, but then Apple turned around and essentially just "knocked off" of Britto's…

Out of interest, if someone contacts you in this manner, do you/they have an implicit attorney/client privilege? Or is it only after you come to an agreement to represent them? Or is it more of a rule of thumb?

It is actually an extremely complex analysis that is dependent on the facts and the jurisdiction (applicable law). It simply isn't applicable to my communications with a 3rd party recruiter from LinkedIn which was not regarding legal advice but potential employment, nor did my comment contain any confidential information protected by the privilege.

To address some of the other responses (common myths):

1. It does not require the exchange of $1 for the attorney-client privilege to apply. For example attorney-client privilege will generally apply to free consultations and it will equally apply in the case of pro bono (free) legal services from groups such as ACLU or EFF to their clients.

2. Attorney-client privilege does not require an agreement for representation to apply (again think of a consultation before an agreement to represent where the privilege applies).

As far as a "rule of thumb" a decent summary by the ABA is:

"Nevertheless, there are some rules that generally apply to most, if not all, jurisdictions. For attorney-client privilege to apply to a communication, the general rules require that: (1) the communication be between a client and an attorney (i.e., an individual having a law degree and bar membership, and acting as an attorney for the client) or an agent of an attorney (e.g., a tax accountant, a patent agent, a forensic investigator, a technical analyst, or an expert); (2) the communication be made by the client and contain confidential information; (3) the communication be made outside the presence of a nonprivileged third party; (4) the communication be made for the purpose of securing legal advice; and (5) the privilege has not otherwise been waived. Privileged communications can be written or oral, but only communications between or among “privileged” persons are protected.

Re: With questionable copyright claim, Jay-Z orders deepfake parodies off YouTube

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2015 I had an unusual solicitation from a recruiter on LinkedIn - as a lawyer this in my experience is a rarity unlike tech where I understand it to be common place - with interest in offering me a General Counsel position with Romero Britto's Company. Turns out Apple engaged in discussions to license (or maybe commissioning) Britto's Art, but then Apple turned around and essentially just "knocked off" of Britto's…

I lived in South Florida for a while. That art style is so recognizable that I immediately knew where the Apple ad came from, though I didn't know the artist's name. How do you even begin to quantify the 'likeness' of one piece of art to another though? In this case it sounds easy enough since they consulted with the artist beforehand, but what if they ripped off his style without ever talking to him, how do you prov…

>In this case it sounds easy enough since they consulted with the artist beforehand, but what if they ripped off his style without ever talking to him, how do you prove it's a copyright infringement?

As they say when the facts are not on your side argue the law, and when the law is not on your side argue the facts. I tend to agree the facts of good faith conversations/business dealings helps if not makes the entire case possible. Even if there was an "obvious rip off" the artist would likely not take on Apple if it were not for the prior good faith discussions between the Artist and Apple.

>How do you even begin to quantify the 'likeness' of one piece of art to another though?

It is a good question...Britto has a very recognizable style that is some sense is also somewhat generic (my opinion only, I am far from an art expert). Copyright/Trademark infringement cases typically come down to questions of fact and the ultimate finder of fact (jury) which is likely why fewer than 10% of cases would go that far but rather parties will elect to settle.

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