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The Anti-Amazon Alliance

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Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#361

Post by dllthomas »

tracer4201 wrote: post #344
dllthomas wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your comment motivated by actual confusion, misguided rhetorical posturing, or trolling? If the first, I'm happy to walk you through the reasoning should camelite's comment prove insufficient.

I don’t think Amazon is doing anything comparable to “murder”, and it’s disappointing that HN discussions are turning into a Reddit like hive mind to downvote and censor discordant views. RE: “Misguided rhetorical posturing“ and “trolling”. You’re basically writing indirect personal attacks. If you really wanted to “walk me through the reasoning” you could have just posted that reasoning instead of what you actually…

You are not being downvoted because of a discordant view. I bet most people who downvoted you agree, some of them strongly, that Amazon isn't doing anything as bad as murder.

You're being downvoted because you reacted strongly to something I didn't say.

> If you really wanted to “walk me through the reasoning” you could have just posted that reasoning instead of what you actually wrote.

In a sibling comment, camelite had already provided an explanation that seemed clear to me. My offer was in case confusion nonetheless persisted. Since that seems to be the case, I'll try again.

"Comparable" is a bit of a poor word. It's true that I was drawing a comparison, so in that sense I obviously think they can be compared. But I was not saying "the badness of these things are of similar magnitude." I was saying that the argument raised in defense of Bezos, where we might be undecided as to culpability, would seem to also apply in defense of someone whose culpability we are clear on. The implication being that the argument is weak. If I am correct in that, this doesn't tell us anything about Bezos except that we should use other arguments in deciding what we think of him, ignoring that particular one.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#362

Post by Kocrachon »

MattGaiser wrote: post #280
break_the_bank wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a limit on the number of marketplaces I'm comfortable sharing my credit card with. Out of all the market places online I'm more comfortable sharing my card with Amazon and I've a higher trust on things arriving in time.

PayPal solves that problem does it not?

Paypal has its own issues. Such as disputes, its easier to dispute with my bank than to dispute with Paypal.

My Twitch account was accessed and the person made a whole bunch of purchases on my account. Twitch customer service basically doesn't exist, so I went to paypal. Paypals system throttled me when I tried to report each action.

With my bank, I can call a number, say "These are all fake" they instantly cancel and refund my money, and I can file chargeback / fraud paper work.

Paypal has a long ways to go customer service and customer experience wise still.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#363

Post by millstone »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #332
hyperdimension wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I heard of Best Buy (a major US electronics chain of stores) being called the "Amazon showroom" more than a few years ago. I never would've thought the situation would've flipped like that.

Over a decade ago, I thought why would I ever need Best Buy and its overpriced HDMI cables. How can a business with all the liabilities of brick and mortar compete with new lean, online only business offering the best prices? Turns out, all Best Buy had to do was not turn their inventory into a lottery of real/counterfeit/broken/returned stuff.

Perhaps Amazon Prime will be the exquisite pinch. It will have trained all of us to expect immediate gratification (ruling out other online retailers) but Amazon itself cannot be trusted to deliver what you order. So we return to the Best Buy, which offers immediate delivery and authentic products!

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#364

Post by bshanks »

thr0w__4w4y wrote: post #225

Way way back, when Amazon got bigger than just books, my motivation for using them was a) very good selection (in one order, I can order bagel chips, wiper blades and a router?) and b) price. Implicit in this was authenticity and good customer service -- for me, if the product isn't the real thing, or the company is a nightmare to deal with, it's a non-starter. Well now here we are. Fake reviews, counterfeit products…

For me, one big competitive advantage of Amazon is that i know that they will probably give me my money back if there is an issue (without me spending a ton of time wrangling customer support, and without me paying return shipping).

For example, recently i had some items missing from Amazon and some items missing from Instacart. Refund from Amazon took a few minutes. By contrast, i've spent a very long time dealing with Instacart (and more hours sitting on hold, and weeks waiting for promised followups that never came) and no refund yet. Instacart is just an example; there are many other merchants with poor return policies (or poor execution of return policies), and many others with good return policies. The competitive advantage of Amazon here is that it's hard to quickly find out whether a merchant that you haven't used before has good customer support, which pushes you towards sticking with a merchant you know.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#365

Post by autoexec »

cactus2093 wrote: post #253
thr0w__4w4y wrote: post #225

Way way back, when Amazon got bigger than just books, my motivation for using them was a) very good selection (in one order, I can order bagel chips, wiper blades and a router?) and b) price. Implicit in this was authenticity and good customer service -- for me, if the product isn't the real thing, or the company is a nightmare to deal with, it's a non-starter. Well now here we are. Fake reviews, counterfeit products…

I've been thinking this for years now, that the free-for-all for 3rd party sellers would eventually erode trust and make Amazon less appealing. But it hasn't collapsed yet and they still keep growing. Now I really view Amazon as two separate products in one interface - there's the Ebay style bazaar, and then there's the first-party store. If I'm looking for a brand-name item, like an iPad or some other gadget, or som…

> I've been thinking this for years now, that the free-for-all for 3rd party sellers would eventually erode trust and make Amazon less appealing. But it hasn't collapsed yet and they still keep growing.

I think this has more to do with a lack of meaningful competition than anything else. I'd happily go back to 1-2 week shipping if I could order from a more trustworthy source. I've only had a few total duds from amazon and they were all under $50 and not worth even returning, but I accept that I'm basically rolling the dice with every amazon purchase at this point.

> I do appreciate that the low-trust, 3rd party world exists. It gives me more choice as a consumer, and the alternative is that most of these items wouldn't be available on Amazon at all.

I'm largely fine with it 100, assuming that amazon is wiling to refund or replace anything I buy that turns out to be crap. That gives them an economic incentive to do at least the most basic policing of people selling on their site.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#366

Post by mixmastamyk »

Non24Throw wrote: post #302
thr0w__4w4y wrote: post #225

Way way back, when Amazon got bigger than just books, my motivation for using them was a) very good selection (in one order, I can order bagel chips, wiper blades and a router?) and b) price. Implicit in this was authenticity and good customer service -- for me, if the product isn't the real thing, or the company is a nightmare to deal with, it's a non-starter. Well now here we are. Fake reviews, counterfeit products…

> their prices aren't competitive anymore... What do you mean by this? Amazon has had the lowest price for basically everything I’ve shopped for in the last 4 years. When it is higher on Amazon, it’s by pennies (because algorithms) and not for very long. At home there’s a grocery store at the bottom of my elevator. It costs less money for me to buy groceries on Amazon Fresh with same-day delivery, than it does for me…

Sales taxes are now collected.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#367

Post by alkonaut »

dalai wrote: post #220
lucb1e wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in the Netherlands, it was recently announced that Amazon will open a Dutch store (not sure when) but it was quite a shock for me when moving to Germany that people here have no clue how to order things other than by going to Amazon. Too much effort to use google and try different web shops if all the web shops can come to a monopolizing marketplace instead I guess? Too bad that the marketplace also competes wit…

In Germany there are a lot of price comparison sites, geizhals and idealo being just two examples. If I am looking for electronics the filtering capabilities of geizhals are way better than Amazon and it is often the case that I can get a better price in one of the many other web shops.

Same in Sweden. What’s missing is the rock bottom pricing, simple listing and cheap delivery for more everyday items such as cables, toilet paper, ... The price comparison sites tend to be good for books, electronics etc but not food etc.

I don’t need Amazon for books or computers but I envy those who can get a cable for $5 with shipping in a few hours when in a pickle. In that situation I have to go to the physical store.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#368

Post by matt_heimer »

starik36 wrote: post #338
Non24Throw wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their prices aren't competitive anymore... What do you mean by this? Amazon has had the lowest price for basically everything I’ve shopped for in the last 4 years. When it is higher on Amazon, it’s by pennies (because algorithms) and not for very long. At home there’s a grocery store at the bottom of my elevator. It costs less money for me to buy groceries on Amazon Fresh with same-day delivery, than it does for me…

I was curious about the lower prices you mentioned. And it isn't the case for items I usually buy. For instance, my local grocery store has 2 liter Diet Coke Caffeine Free for $0.99 (on sale, sure, but it occurs like clockwork every 2 weeks), while Amazon Fresh has it for $1.74. Plain bagels are $1.99 at the grocery store, while AF charges $3.24. Could it be the case that your local grocery store is simply overpriced…

I think "grocery store at the bottom of my elevator" was a give away, they have to be in metro area and the grocery store has huge markups due to real estate costs.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#369

Post by thirdsun »

autoexec wrote: post #365
cactus2093 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking this for years now, that the free-for-all for 3rd party sellers would eventually erode trust and make Amazon less appealing. But it hasn't collapsed yet and they still keep growing. Now I really view Amazon as two separate products in one interface - there's the Ebay style bazaar, and then there's the first-party store. If I'm looking for a brand-name item, like an iPad or some other gadget, or som…

> I've been thinking this for years now, that the free-for-all for 3rd party sellers would eventually erode trust and make Amazon less appealing. But it hasn't collapsed yet and they still keep growing. I think this has more to do with a lack of meaningful competition than anything else. I'd happily go back to 1-2 week shipping if I could order from a more trustworthy source. I've only had a few total duds from amazo…

> I think this has more to do with a lack of meaningful competition than anything else.

A good way to introduce meaningful competition is leveling the playing field when it comes to return policies. The ease of returns at Amazon is often brought up by US users in these discussions. And it's indeed great. However in europe it's a non-issue since all shops have to offer a 14-day no questions asked return option. Wondering whether I'll be able to return an item isn't part of my purchasing considerations at all - regardless of where I shop.

In my opinion good legislation and reasonable minimum standards for all sellers enable competition.

Re: The Anti-Amazon Alliance

#370

Post by mikorym »

thr0w__4w4y wrote: post #225

Way way back, when Amazon got bigger than just books, my motivation for using them was a) very good selection (in one order, I can order bagel chips, wiper blades and a router?) and b) price. Implicit in this was authenticity and good customer service -- for me, if the product isn't the real thing, or the company is a nightmare to deal with, it's a non-starter. Well now here we are. Fake reviews, counterfeit products…

> the Ring Doorbell

You can build something much, much better with about $100 with a Raspberry Pi, depending I guess on the camera quality. Are there any features unique to the Ring?

I am an advocate of using something like RPi's for Computer Science in Africa but I am a missionary without a following (thank goodness there isn't another crank like me going to central Africa).

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