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YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

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Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#511

Post by zouhair »

fwn wrote: post #502
zouhair wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does it justify censorship? Yes, they are wrong and they will cause deaths if they are allowed to peddle more unsubstantiated bullshit. This is not a philosophical debate, people are literally dying.

> This is not a philosophical debate, people are literally dying. That's a bit like "let's not think about what we're doing, people are literally dying". The gravity of the situation only increases the need for evaluation of our behavior as a society. Public discourse isn't an optional nice-to-have in times in which everything is fine, it's one of the cornerstones of democratic societies.

No, public discourse in a technical matter is out of the question. Equating the opinion of 2 random doctors to the thousands of epidemiologists worldwide is not helping democracy in any shape or form. It actually destroys it.

We need to stop this insanity. Ignorant people's opinion is not worth the opinion of an expert.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#512

Post by CreepGin »

ColanR wrote: post #447

It's too bad that we are so quick to silence those who we perceive as wrong. Apparently, the doctors in the video were using incorrect facts; I wouldn't know, the video is gone. Discussion is being prohibited, wherever there is an approved expert to say the viewpoint is wrong. If dissention is labelled dangerous, and dissenting voices on important subjects are silenced, then we are creating an echo chamber with no re…

I watched the video and I think there are both good and bad in it. I want to list them here for others to consider.

The wrongful:

1) They extrapolated non-randomized sample to be somehow indicative of the whole State's population (CA and NY were mentioned I believe).

2) They concluded that the COVID-19 death rate is similar to that of the regular flu.

The valid:

1) They made the point that it's impossible for the current restrictive measures to get to near-zero cases.

2) They made a call for people to look at the long-term societal consequences of the shutdown, referencing issues like domestic violence, child abuse, etc...

3) They are calling for reopening the economy by gradually opening up schools and small businesses as we ramp up testing.

The questionable:

1) They argued that after being shut inside homes, people are lowering their immune systems. When restriction lift and they go outside, the disease rate will skyrocket.

2) They are pretty much full-on Dwight-mode, calling for no social distancing and not wearing masks (in attempt to boost one's immune system).

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#513

Post by wesammikhail »

rsynnott wrote: post #320
wesammikhail wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck this reply and everything it represents. I truly detest this madness and everyone who believe in such warped nonsense. One giant pile of argument from authority bullcrap. This idea that only narrow set of domain experts can speak up about something is blatantly insane. You are not an epidemiologist either, so by the same token, you don´t have the right to criticize anything anyone says, yet here you are. So mayb…

> epidemiologists are not statisticians Err... what was it you think epidemiologists do?

Talk about missing the point!

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#514

Post by Smoosh »

ab_testing wrote: post #262
ceejayoz wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are the doctors in the video saying untruths or misrepresenting data? Yes, they are. https://www.dailynews.com/2020/04/28/california-doctors-with... > But public health experts were quick to debunk the doctors’ findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing. > The doctors should never have assumed that…

The point here is that youtube is not a harbinger of scientific truth. These doctors present their findings with their collected data to come to this conclusion that the according to them, this virus is not dangerous and the quarantine should end. Does Youtube also censor videos where plumbers present an incorrect way to install a toilet that can lead to backflow and flooding. The point to make here is that Youtube i…

> The point to make here is that Youtube is NOT the New England Journal of Science

Exactly! So why are the doctors using it as a platform when they should be going through reputable peer-reviewed channels?

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#515

Post by wvenable »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #506
wvenable wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Free speech" is a right but also an ideal. The problem with the ideal is that most people have it wrong. "Free speech" is not speech without consequences. Nobody here thinks that speech should be criminalized but that doesn't mean you have the right to be heard. If nobody wants to associate with you because of your speech, that's their right. You are not entitled to a soapbox.

You are entitled to a soapbox. You're not entitled to an audience . Each person chooses for themselves, not one party choosing for others.

You aren't entitled to a soapbox unless you make your own soapbox or buy one. Nobody is required to give you one. If you have a soapbox, you might still not get an audience.

YouTube took their soapbox away.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#516

Post by sacred_numbers »

foolinaround wrote: post #190
CamperBob2 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's look at the death rates, no it's not. They're similar in prevalence and in death rate. That statement alone is justification for removing their video as a public health hazard.

There's lots and lots of bad stuff there... The question is should youtube be censoring it? if so, why this, and not others?

I'm still kind of conflicted on this particular case, but if someone yells "fire" in a crowded theater should the theater owner be able to kick them out? What if the fire alarm is going off, but a so-called "expert" is claiming that the fire alarm is just malfunctioning? Should the theater owner be able to silence them? Deep down I think I still believe that free speech should be protected even if it costs lives, but it's getting harder to hold onto this philosophy in recent years. Misinformation and propaganda is a plague that is nearly impossible to beat since it takes an order of magnitude more effort to refute a lie than to spread it. The only ways I can think of to solve this problem are either to restrict free speech or to spend huge resources on teaching the public critical thinking skills and the scientific method. The second option will take decades to work, if it's even possible at all.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#517

Post by twomoretime »

joshuamorton wrote: post #452
twomoretime wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Are you really so arrogant as to ignore that YouTube is far more likely to be making an ideological decision here? An expert made a statement. YouTube went out of its way to find a doctor who supported YouTube's ideological slant and used that as justification for taking action. This obliviousness. This is why we must restrict power. This is why we can't have nice things.

What makes these two doctors experts in epidemiology and statistics?

Do you really trust YouTube to make that decision? That's the whole point. I'm not actually interested in the credentials on either side - merely pointing out that YouTube is doing far more harm than good in choosing a side. Society would be far better off without their curation.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#518

Post by RonanTheGrey »

GuiA wrote: post #417
aliminator8 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube has the right to censor anything it likes. It's their platform. If you don't like it, don't use YouTube.

I look forward to a world where platforms are less afraid to kick off the voices they don’t like. The world would be better with 50 YouTubes rather than just one.

If there were 50 YouTubes, that would be amazing. I wouldn't care ONE BIT if someone got kicked off RandomTube. It'd be hard to argue that their voice was being silenced.

The 2nd player to YouTube, however, is a very distant second. YouTube has the power to decide if billions see a message. That's.... a power most governments would salivate to have.

Personally I feel like the perspective that "they're privately owned so they can do what they want" while technically true, intentionally and dishonestly misses the point.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#519

Post by zouhair »

teh_infallible wrote: post #473
zouhair wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's with your logic that we have the anti-vax movement, the anti-gmo one, flat-earthers and so on and so forth.

Do you feel threatened by voices you disagree with? Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy?

> Aren’t dissenting voices and debate pillars of our democracy?

No, not all dissenting voices are equal. When your opinion is factually wrong you should not be allowed in the public discourse.

Re: YouTube removed a viral video of two doctors calling for an end to quarantine

#520

Post by thdrdt »

Barrin92 wrote: post #376
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suppose you're right. Does it justify censorship? Fauci can defend himself, and the docs are welcome to express their opinions. What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them?

>What gives Google/YouTube the justification to silence them? The fact that it is their platform. >Fauci can defend himself, Fauci is a 79 year old man busy working 20 hours a day trying to stop more people from dying, he doesn't have the time to debunk garbage on the internet. Youtube is completely within their rights to remove dangerous disinformation from their platform and I hope they take an agressive stance goi…

I know it's their platform so they can do what they want.

But why not show a warning like "the following content has false and dangerous information"?

Now it is gone so it can't be discussed.

And I also think you take away responsibility of the viewers if they don't need to be critical about any information.

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